Sleeving a H22A block & turbo - lots of questions!

[Raf99]

Hey,

Well I figured you guys would be the best to ask these questions to, because your all so nice :P In regards to sleeving a block and turbo'ing I am a newbie. I have all these questions floating around now...

My knowledge would be average. I've changed my own oil, shocks, stereo gear, tires, CV joints, and the usual small items.

I've swapped a H22A into my accord and did most of the work; months of research, bought a 'how to' for swapping H22s, read for a good month on what needed to be done (wiring, manual timing belt tensioner fix, external distributor hookup, etc). I helped put the motor in, wire things up (extra wires for the swap (knock senseor, etc), etc, etc. I had a mechanic do other items that required air tools, and some wiring issues I had for VTEC timing, etc.

Now I am going to turbo a H22A block and I have a lot of reading to do. I already have Eagle Rods, and I picked up a block the other day. Its just a bare block with the water pump, oil filter, and crank. I am going to sleeve this, pistons, etc, etc. But first... some questions:

1- http://www.axidworks.com/Mahle%20Pow...0Pistons%20H22
They have Mahle Power Pack 11.5 Comp Pistons out now with the skirt coating on the side of them. What's are the advantages and disadvantages of these? I'm guessing that they are good but will not perform or reach a higher HP as a sleeved block?


2- What's the difference between a Stage 1, 2, 3 H22 Camshafts I'm seeing around and how do I know which ones will best suite my setup?

3- The block is not new but is in good shape; but dirty. Grease, grime, etc. Can anyone recommend the best way to get this puppy to shine?

4- What are some other general checks and things I should do to this block while its out. (the manual tensioner should be done for example, and I should take the water pump off and check it yet I'm not sure what to check for yet (I'm sure it has seals, etc))



I know its going to take a long time and I'm ok with that. I have more questions but I think I'm going to start with this. I'm sure the questions will get more technical as we go on.


Many thanks in advance to anyone willing to share their knowledge, links, and resources to help me out!


All the H haters please use hit Alt+F4 to vote on how much you hate this type of engine

[excalibur02]

#1. 11.5 compression is not what you want on a turbo h block. You need to do 9 or 8. Mahles a good company piston but when its for a stock block. Look into wiseco or je pistons.

#2. Stock camshafts will be fine for a turbo build. Some say n/a camshafts are better for turbo. But all in all you don't need to get stage 1 2 or 3.

#3. When you get your block sleeved as you stated the machine shop will clean the block. But if you have spare time you can wash it with degreaser, engine foam bright and a brush.

#4. You don't have to check much since the machine shop will check the block prior and after the sleeves are done. However I suggest getting all oem honda seals and gaskets so the machine shop doesn't charge you to buy them.

[excalibur02]

As anyone would say also is just do it right the first time. Don't go cheap on anything as you regret it down the road.

Use apr head studs and a good aluminum radiator for the turbo application.

In no means am I know it all but others can chime in.

[Raf99]

I do plan on doing this right the first time. I like to take responsibility, readup, educate myself and do it right, so of course I appreciate the info. Some more Qs:

- Will any ARP Headstuds work, do they make specific ones for H22A, H22A4, etc. I think the answer is yes from looking at this page: http://www.alamomotorsports.com/arp/hshonda.html

- The big Q! Do H series manifolds come for different size turbos? Not that I have all the turbo sizes memorized yet but I am going to purchase a legit H turbo manifold off buddy who had this block this weekend. Its cast iron, thick, was used befoere, no cracks, etc; I looked at it really good. But how do I know what size turbo will bolt up to this? (I mailed him and asked for specs on the manifold.)


I really hate to bother people for these questions, I'd rather educate myself by reading up on things. But sometimes ya end up with these type of questions where experience counts

[ChampCoupe]

darton makes sleeves for the h22 and your local machine shop will be able to sleeve the block for you. and they can install and balance your pistons and rods. you can also over bored the block during this time to give you a lil more displacement.

as far as the cams go, it depends on what compression you are going to be running. like 11.5:1 i would use stage 2 cams. 12.0:1 and higher look at the stage 3 cams. with boost applications you are going to need to look for cams made for boosted h22's. skunk2 makes stage 1 and 2 turbo cams. just depends on how agressive you want them and how much power you are trying to make.

figure out how much hp you want and build your motor around that. if you are just looking for 400whp. you can drop in a set of mahle pistons and some aftermarket rods. bolt on your turbo kit and get it tuned. the stock cams are good to about 475-500whp. maybe even more.

[excalibur02]

H22 arp head studs fit any H22. Jdm usdm whatever you got.

For the manifold there's 2 types of flanges people use. T3 exhaust turbo flange (common flange) then there's the bigger t4 flange. The t4 flange is for the big turbos pretty much ie. Garrett ball bearing gt series gt35 or gt40. Turbonetics t70 and so on...

There's many members here that have turbo or currently going turbo look at there setups.

Google search helps too. Like how a turbo works. You can get more information like that.

[mozzandherb]

I have read nothing but good things about the Mahle pistons, however, I would still recommend sleeving. The turbo you choose obviously depends on how much power you want to make, and I will also say that you will need to do some other upgrades to your transmission to handle the added power. But, like was mentioned if you dont cheap out on parts and it sounds like you're into doing research which is always good...one thing for sure is find yourself the best tuner around!

[Raf99]

That answers a lot of my questions. Very good point about deciding on the HP factor and then buying/building based on that. I am aiming for 400WHP or more here...

ChampCoupe:
I had no idea what the machine shop would actually do, now I know. Awsome!
- How do I know what bore size to aim for and would I need to buy a specific set of pistons to address this size? I guess what I am asking is that I need to know the bore size I am choosing before I buy the pistons, correct? (then i would buy the pistons in a 87.00, 87.25, etc respectively? (default bore size for h22 is 87mm)

excalibur02:
I've been reading all week. Wikipedia, google, honda-tech, and other sites. Thanks again. It sounds like most manifolds for the H22 are going to be suited for a T3 as T4 and higher turbos/manifolds would be for the big cats (non road purpose). Same with the Stage II and above camshafts.

So it sounds like I am aiming for:

T3 manifold
T3 turbo (good starter turbo, not sure of its capability, will read up)
ARP Head Studs
Mahle H22 pistons (size unknown yet)
Darton Sleeves
Eagle H Rods

I will check out the other tubro builds on here, I have a bunch of them bookmarked at home. There's also a link floating around on here (and i have it at home) which charts other h22 turbo builds and the HP they reached with the components they have installed. Such a great link!

[mozzandherb]

That answers a lot of my questions. Very good point about deciding on the HP factor and then buying/building based on that. I am aiming for 400WHP or more here...

ChampCoupe:
I had no idea what the machine shop would actually do, now I know. Awsome!
- How do I know what bore size to aim for and would I need to buy a specific set of pistons to address this size? I guess what I am asking is that I need to know the bore size I am choosing before I buy the pistons, correct? (then i would buy the pistons in a 87.00, 87.25, etc respectively? (default bore size for h22 is 87mm)

excalibur02:
I've been reading all week. Wikipedia, google, honda-tech, and other sites. Thanks again. It sounds like most manifolds for the H22 are going to be suited for a T3 as T4 and higher turbos/manifolds would be for the big cats (non road purpose). Same with the Stage II and above camshafts.

So it sounds like I am aiming for:

T3 manifold
T3 turbo (good starter turbo, not sure of its capability, will read up)
ARP Head Studs
Mahle H22 pistons (size unknown yet)
Darton Sleeves
Eagle H Rods

I will check out the other tubro builds on here, I have a bunch of them bookmarked at home. There's also a link floating around on here (and i have it at home) which charts other h22 turbo builds and the HP they reached with the components they have installed. Such a great link!

Just to clarify, when I refered to the Mahle pistons I was refering to the Gold series. If you are sleeving the block there are several other great companies that make low compression pistons suitable for what you're looking for.

[mozzandherb]

btw I moved the thread

[Raf99]

Just to clarify, when I refered to the Mahle pistons I was refering to the Gold series. If you are sleeving the block there are several other great companies that make low compression pistons suitable for what you're looking for.

Ya, the Mahle Gold series are for non sleeved. I gotchya. You still in Quebec?

[mozzandherb]

Ya, the Mahle Gold series are for non sleeved. I gotchya. You still in Quebec?

yes sir, I am in Gatineau

[Raf99]

yes sir, I am in Gatineau

I'm in NS, Canada.

[Kellen]

1- as it was already said 11:5 is not good for boost, go 9:1 or maybe 9:5:1 since your sleeving it.


2- it varies on the stages of aggressiveness, and you will also need to upgrade the valvetrain when using certain stages.

3- break it down and put it through a solvent tank

4-yeah manual tensioner, water pump seal, replace bearings, and look for any physical damage along with signs of wear.

[Raf99]

Just some more Qs....

- What determines the compression ratio for pistons you should use?
From what I've read, the amount of boost (air/fuel) your pumping into the block would determine this as you will have higher compression in the block during the compression phase of the stroke. Does this imply that a 8:1 piston and a 9:1 piston are the same in all aspects?

- Does a T4 turbo fit a T3 manifold. From what I've read it does, but wanted to double check. I'm seeing a lot of Super T70 turbos, but as excalibur02 pointed out (and I agree), cheap = no good in the long run.
Mainly asking this as I think a T3 turbo is going to only get me to 350whp max.

- And what size injectors would you recommend? 700, 880, 1000? (Can I use 880 or 1000 even though they would be overkill for my current setup?)