Cisco NA F22 non-VTEC SOHC Project - Mild Red

[HondaFan81]

glad to see you've considered getting different springs for red.... i agree the wheel gap on the wheels is very large still.... lowered a bit more and it'd be HOT.

Yea, the Tokico HP springs are the same drop all around, which obviously still gives the stock-like uneven look. H&R sports are 1.75" FR and 1.5" RR, so I should get a more even look and a bit lower, but still be good for a daily driver with no camber kit required...perfect for my purpose.

Currently I have the car idle adjustment screw 4 full turns from closed position. I have the fuel pressure (WOT mode still) set at 43-45 psi. I reset ignition timing within stock range (idle still not smooth, but smoother than before).

On the way to my aunt's tonight, I slowed down on the highway a few times to 60 mph and did 3rd gear pulls up to 6000 rpm, then upshifted to 4th and pulled up just past 5th gear got up to 110 mph...did this about 3-4 times. Car right now really pulls from 3500+ and it still pulls all the way up to 6000 rpm, but I don't care to take it any further until I get tuned and feel confident in the A/F ratio. Anyhow, the performance is definitely noticeable and I only predict it to get better with tuning. We shall see soon. Once I get this datalog cable kit back that I let someone borrow, wideband will start.

[HondaFan81]

I'm going to set idle at 900-1000 rpm, set ignition timing based on that RPM as I did a ignition timing advance study in stock form so I know what it should be at.

I'll also get the wideband hooked up soon and get a compression test done on this motor, to see how healthy this motor is now.

I still have some cosmetic annoying issues I'd like to fix before NC meet, but I don't know if ti will get the time. Also wondering if I can get the H&R sport springs received and installed before NC meet too.

[HondaFan81]

H&R sport springs bought...F it, I'll get them on!!

[accord91lx]

hell yea on the springs..... i figure you'll be able to get em on in max 2 days... you're like the suspension nut....

[HondaFan81]

hell yea on the springs..... i figure you'll be able to get em on in max 2 days... you're like the suspension nut....

true..one day install, another for alignment check which should be for free from Sears...holds up for 6 months from the previous check

[HondaFan81]

4/6/06 update:

- wideband installed and works
- car still will not idle smoothly
- need to do 3rd gear pull from 2000 to 6000 rpm
- H&R sport springs arrive Friday

4/7/06 update:

- H&R sport springs arrived today
- car idles like stock now (had to connect IABs & FPR to the same rearmost port on the H23 IM)
- with stock-like idle, reset ignition timing to 15 BTDC & cam is still at 0 degrees
- IABs hooked up directly from diaphragm to plenum via vacuum hose
- FPR works properly (vacuum hose connected), set at 43 psi @ WOT
- got a 10 inHg reading for vacuum off one of the IM ports, I feel this cam needs/wants to be advanced a few degrees for better streetability
- car runs better on the low-end now
- made 5 third gear pulls from 2000-6000 rpm tonight with wideband & datalogged on MRX chipped P06 ECu

4/8/06 update:

- may run stock Accord ECU (PT3) with wideband & do 3rd gear pull(s)

[HondaFan81]

4/9/06:

- can properly read Uberdata files now
- should get new replacement chip burner back Thursday, 4/13
- fuel & ignition maps need tweaking, especially low-end
- cam set at 2 deg advance from fooling around
- running rich at idle, IACV is only thing trying to keep it idle (if removed, engine stalls out)
- H&R springs most likely won't get installed before NC meet, not a priority

Priorities before NC meet:

- idle issue fixed
- decent street tune
- dyno setup (tweak cam and ignition timing then)
- fix radio wire & install headunit dash kit
- maybe fix rattling door windows with pin kit

[HondaFan81]

F22ax Red Accord Project - Tuning Log:

Setup:

- Zeitronix wideband
- Uberdata 1.7 rev2.2
- Moates chip burner
- MRX chipped P06 ECU
- have 2 .bins/maps for my setup (#1 and #2 I'll call them)

4/10/06:

- stock PT3 ECU will start engine, but stall out immediately

- #1 Map:

* fuel psi @ 43 psi WOT (38 psi w/hose connected)
* IABs connect direct from diaphragm to IM port via vacuum hose
* ignition timing approx. 15 deg BTDC (not a smooth idle)
* base ignition set at 16.5 deg BTDC, needs to be 15 deg
* injector size set at 240 cc/min (correct)
* idles rich
* IACV is the only reason it holds idle, when disconnected engine stalls out
* can not set base idle because of idle issue listed above
* when doing semi-spirited run, get a CEL # 4 (crank position sensor)...have to diagnose ECU or dizzy related
* city crusing in 1st or 2nd gear, AFRs are 14's
* map #1 pulls better in city driving, then map #2
* when stomp throttle (WOT) in 3rd gear around 2000 RPM, AFR hits 20's, then richens up into high 10s/low 11s & hits 13s at about 5800+ RPM

- #2 Map:

* fuel psi @ 43 psi WOT (38 psi w/hose connected)
* IABs connect direct from diaphragm to IM port via vacuum hose
* ignition timing approx. 15 deg BTDC (not a smooth idle)
* base ignition set at 16.5 deg BTDC, needs to be 15 deg
* injector size set at 345 cc/min (incorrect)
* idles rich
* IACV is the only reason it holds idle, when disconnected engine stalls out
* can not set base idle because of idle issue listed above
* when doing semi-spirited run, get a CEL # 4 (crank position sensor)...have to diagnose ECU or dizzy related
* map #1 pulls better in city driving, then map #2
* when stomp throttle (WOT) in 3rd gear around 2000 RPM, AFR hits 15-16's, then richens up into low 11s & hits 13s at about 4700+ RPM

Current Situation:

- Supposedly have an open in the blu/grn and/or blu/yel wires from the distributor housing to ECU. This may have a part in the idle issues. As I get CEL code 4 (crank position sensor), which controls timing for fuel injection and ignition and detects engine RPM.

Current Plan of Attack:

- receive new Moates chip burner Thursday, April 13th (original supposedly defective)
- resolve idle issue
- after idle issue resolved, set base idle
- after base idle, set ignition timing to 15 BTDC (steady)
- set cam timing back to 0 deg & see how it idles
- get a decent street tune throughout the RPM range
- dyno setup, dial in cam & ignition timing
- final street tune at NC meet with MRX

[d112crzy]

damn, 20's? how long does it stay there? thats crazy.

[HondaFan81]

damn, 20's? how long does it stay there? thats crazy.

Not long, only at that instant you spike the throttle in 3rd gear.

[MRX]

And its no worse then that hesitation u get when ur fuel injectors need some cleaner run through them. Bet you can't even feel a hard hesitation cisco

[hemlockz]

I'm going to set idle at 900-1000 rpm, set ignition timing based on that RPM as I did a ignition timing advance study in stock form so I know what it should be at.

What should it be at?

[HondaFan81]

What should it be at?

Right now I can't set idle to any RPM because it's so out of whack. But at 1000 RPM a stock F22ax will be at 16 deg btdc at idle/no load (total ignition timing). At 1200 RPM it jumps to 21 deg btdc.

Anyways, I'll be out working on this car tracking down the CEL code 4 issue and perhaps this will give me insight on my idle issue.

[hemlockz]

Right now I can't set idle to any RPM because it's so out of whack. But at 1000 RPM a stock F22ax will be at 16 deg btdc at idle/no load (total ignition timing). At 1200 RPM it jumps to 21 deg btdc.

Anyways, I'll be out working on this car tracking down the CEL code 4 issue and perhaps this will give me insight on my idle issue.

Thats cool that you were able to find that out, I had no clue it was that exreme... Is the timing advance just based off the ignition maps in the ROM, or is it hardware controlled? I guess I'm asking if a chipped ECU will have the same 6 degree advance at 1200 as a PT3? Or we don't know yet?

Oh for what its worth... I've also had the code 4 before. it happed after i rewired my external coil to an internal coil... (I know everybody does the oppisite but I had a new 90-91 coil and a bad 92-93 coil) ... and it was because of bad soldering. eventually the soldering broke and left me stalled in an intersection : so... after resoldering all that shit and installing MSD it went away.

[HondaFan81]

Well, CRANK sensor resistance is within specification (checked many times), so are the other CYL and TDC sensors. Also, checked the wiring from ECU to distributor base and both crank sensor related wires have continuity, verified this more than once.

I never had any CELs when my F22a1 was stock and this is the same distributor assembly on this project red setup. Since the hardware/wiring related to this distributor assembly is in check (according to tests in Helms manual), then this points me towards the chipped P06 ECU and/or the chipped maps. Since the crank sensor is involved with engine RPM, fuel injection and ignition timing, I feel something within these 3 areas gets out of whack when I get above 3K RPM or so in WOT conditions only. When the CEL 4 comes on in these conditions, it stays on. However, when the engine is shut off and restarted, the code is gone and only reappears in the conditions I stated previously. So I'm convinced it's within the maps most likely related to ignition or fuel injection, perhaps something is out of its parameters.

I would try to use my stock ECU and do a semi-spirited run, but the stock ECU will start and run the car for a VERY short period and stall out immediately. I'm guessing because it does not support the mods.