ESP traction bar consequences

[Ghetto_CB7]

Hello all,

I am looking into suspension options and will probably be doing some tracking of the vehicle.

I am looking at getting

koni supercup kit, before they are all gone

progressive rear sway

three point front upper ESP strut mount

two point rear upper ESP strut

the full energy suspension poly set.

Now I know all of that is good, my question is what affects will the traction bar have on the handling of the vehicle.

I know it is good for drag racing, but I am concerned about its consequences it could have for understeer and other handling.

As I do not even know where to look for this information I am hoping someone here who knows more about suspension than I do.

Also for those running the supercup kit, how much of a difference in ride quality is there between the sport springs and the race springs.

Any way thanks in advance

Regards.

[mndude07]

I have the supercup kit, but I haven't ridden on the sport springs. I love the setup with the race springs though, and wouldn't ride on another shock other than a Bilstein ever.

That said, id you look at the race springs' rates, they're stiffer than just about every other lowering spring out there, but a little softer than most of the full coilover setups. This make the setup a truely killer combo for street and track because you're getting the best of both worlds.

As for the traction bar...

To some extent your stock crossmember is going to flex, and the traction bar is stronger. Also, it replaces the stock radius rods, which are secured to the stock crossmember with rubber bushings. Rubber bushings flex of course, but the question is, what direction of motion does that affect and how do you describe it? One thing I can see is mechanical trail. By replacing the radius rods and bushings with units that are attached with spherical bearings, you effectively eliminate all the flex that takes place, which cuts out any variation in mechanical trail that might be taking place due to the stock bushing's excessive compliance. So, eliminating that compliance will result in a more stable and consistent wheel under cornering.

If you want an extreme to visualize it, think that with the stock bushings and radius rods, while cornering, your caster is wobbling between 3 and 5 degrees constantly, while with the traction bar, it stays at 4 degrees under all conditions. That's a total exaggeration of course.

[19dabeast85]

Half way off topic but where are you still finding the supercup kits?


I'm still waiting on my ESP traction bar so I have no direct experience but I have seen people with other chassis reporting better all-around handling after installing a traction bar due to what mndude07 explained....you get a more consistent suspension geometry that is more predictable allowing you to push it closer to the limit with a smaller margin of error.


I remember reading somewhere that the front mount positions of the radius rods on the ESP traction bar are further out from the center of the car, can anyone verify this? It concerns me if the radius rod isn't on the same pivotal plane as the LCA because caster will change with suspension movement.

[deevergote]

Holy crap, I didn't realize the supercup kit was going away! Maybe they just haven't put it back in the catalog since the site redesign? I hope it's not gone... that's one of the best options for a "bolt on and go" setup!




Anyway, I have a Collective Racing traction bar setup, and it does indeed give a more positive feel all around. I haven't noticed an increase in understeer at all. Actually, it makes me realize just how badly I need to get LSD!
It's been 2 years since I drove the car, though... and by the time I installed the traction bar (which is now welded to my frame...) I wasn't feeling secure enough in the car to really push it hard.

[Ghetto_CB7]

Sadness

I talked to neuspeed.

They no longer have the super cup kit with the sp3's available.

only the regular sport.

Complete sadness just overcame me.

They also said that none of their vender's have any, and that they will not be making any.

I am a sad panda.

[deevergote]

That really is sad news!
Our aftermarket is going to start shrinking very quickly. Our cars are 20 years old now, and they're not a popular platform for any type of racing. There's not enough of a market for the big companies to retain an interest in making parts for us.

Soon we're going to be left with the cheap crap (until that disappears too!) and the truly expensive one-off stuff that only the most serious tuners will want to pay for.

[Ghetto_CB7]

Rep

The rep I talked to said they sold tons of the sp3 cup kit setups.

He said that since they canceled them they have had at least 100 people call to verify they didn't have any.

That goes for the 90-97 accord I think. Anyway it sounds like they will not make any more, so I am going with the regular old sport struts.

I will be on the lookout for people selling the sp3 though.

[wherm]

I have the ESP 3pt upper, 4pt rear, and traction bar system. I have nothing negative to say about any of it except that the traction bar rattles a little at the heim joints. It's a long story, but basically a fabricator at a reputable shop showed me where tapered nylon washers should have been used to keep the joints from rattling. It does not harm the performance, just irritates me a little. Other than that, my steering response from adding these three parts is much better. Body roll was reduced as well, and wheel hop is completely eliminated. Launcing is smooth, but as Deev said, makes me realize how bad I need an LSD.

[wherm]

What's the price difference between those sp3's and something like H&R or Tein?

[Tnwagn]

Shit, Supercup Kit is going out. CB7's on the way down