Lowdown on B16B/B18C5/6/7

[palinix]

lets put it this way. you can put a f/h series in a civic/interga. power to weight ratio but you cant put a b series in a accord/prelude weight to power.

Not exactly sure what you mean but this is not the case always.

Ok, let's say you compare a simple power to weight ratio of these 2 setups (let's assume these are possible):

1) B18C5 (195hp ITR motor) in a cb7 (approx 2900lbs)
2) F22A6 (160hp accord motor) in a civic (approx 2300lbs)

P/W ratio:

(1) 0.067
(2) 0.066

What's this?? The cb7 with the ITR motor has a slightly higher p/w ratio?? How??

[MikeW]

Torque
Just cuz it has a higher p/w ratio and higher Hp doesnt mean its the better choice

[oneoffaccord]

Torque
Just cuz it has a higher p/w ratio and higher Hp doesnt mean its the better choice

THANKYOU SIR^^^^^ H22 in ACCORD is better than a h22 in a PRELUDE. cuz of WEIGHT

[deevergote]

The torque is the main issue...


However, in Europe, CB7s came with F18 engines... meaning a 1.8L engine HAS been used in a CB7. It's definitely a low-end setup, but it exists.

A B or D series motor would take a LOT of work to get in. A transmission adaptor would be the best idea, considering the fact that the B/D transmissions are shifted by rods, and we use cables. You'd need to do some floor surgery if you wanted rods.

The torque of a B18C5 is 12ft/lb less than the F22A6 and 7 less than the F22A1. Less torque than the stock motor means the car will pull off the line even slower than stock. You'll get your power up high, but with so little torque, you already lost the race. The B18C5 would cost more than a Type S or Euro R H22 as well.


The ONLY reason to do such a swap is to be different. It would probably pull crazy points at shows, since it's very original. For anything performance oriented though, it'll be way too expensive to justify the results.

I'd love to see a totally built and boosted D15A in a CB7 Just because it's such a crap motor... but turned into a monster

[oneoffaccord]

integra itr 14.7 in 1/4 mile 2700lbs
accord h22 about the same in 1/4 mile weighing about the same, maybe 100 lbs more. well my accord stock from factory is 2722. Torque owns. my opinion

[palinix]

Torque
Just cuz it has a higher p/w ratio and higher Hp doesnt mean its the better choice

You are right. The ITR motor still has less torque than a F22A6.

I was trying to prove that what onneoff said about p/w was not true in all cases. It is in most, but not all.

[ACC0RD22]

Not exactly sure what you mean but this is not the case always.

Ok, let's say you compare a simple power to weight ratio of these 2 setups (let's assume these are possible):

1) B18C5 (195hp ITR motor) in a cb7 (approx 2900lbs)
2) F22A6 (140hp accord motor) in a civic (approx 2300lbs)

P/W ratio:

(1) 0.067
(2) 0.061

What's this?? The cb7 with the ITR motor has a slightly higher p/w ratio?? How??

fixed a few numerical errors.

However, youre comparing apples and oranges. anyone in thier right mind would swap in an H22 over the F22a6, and most, if not all, would put the H22 with the C5 instead of any F-series, if not only because they share DOHC VTEC.

Additionally, the lack of low end torque that the B-series provides means it takes alot more to even GET to the power up top.

[deevergote]

Getting to the power at the top of the B18's powerband would be like running an abnormally large turbo... with a max hp of 200... and absolutely no torque.

The H22 is cliche'. The Type S and Euro R are coming down in price, and becoming more readily availible to people. We're seeing more of them lately. A few of my closer friends on here have one or the other.

However, it's the best choice. If you want to swap, the H22 is the best choice. If you want to boost, the F22B DOHC is the best choice (if you intend to swap). If you just want a revvy toy, the F20 is the best choice... They all just drop in. The B series would take MAJOR work to get it to work, making it mui impractical.

[oneoffaccord]

yesterday have i did that swap in the intergra the owner felt a lack of torque that the b18b had compared to the b18c. but when you stomp on the gas at 6k (vtec engaged) its pulls hard. not because of torque cuz the motor takes power over a certain rpm range.

[MikeW]

Lighter cars dont need torque to pull them off the line, but they do need the topend HP to pull them thru. The heavier cars, CBs and ludes, need that extra troque to pull us off the line, and the extra HP to pull us through. Its a linchpin. You can drop an H into a civic/teg and its massive, but a B/D into a cb or lude is just useless. It almost seems like a direct upgrade on a completely different level. The B/D's were made striclty for lighter cars like civics/tegs while the F/H's were meant strictly for cbs and ludes. Unfortunately for us, we only have the 3 motors to use, while civics/tegs options are damn near wide-open.

[ACC0RD22]

Lighter cars dont need torque to pull them off the line, but they do need the topend HP to pull them thru. The heavier cars, CBs and ludes, need that extra troque to pull us off the line, and the extra HP to pull us through. Its a linchpin. You can drop an H into a civic/teg and its massive, but a B/D into a cb or lude is just useless. It almost seems like a direct upgrade on a completely different level. The B/D's were made striclty for lighter cars like civics/tegs while the F/H's were meant strictly for cbs and ludes. Unfortunately for us, we only have the 3 motors to use, while civics/tegs options are damn near wide-open.

luckily, HP is a function of torque, so the more torque you have, the more HP you have. neat, isnt it.

[palinix]

fixed a few numerical errors.

However, youre comparing apples and oranges. anyone in thier right mind would swap in an H22 over the F22a6, and most, if not all, would put the H22 with the C5 instead of any F-series, if not only because they share DOHC VTEC.

Additionally, the lack of low end torque that the B-series provides means it takes alot more to even GET to the power up top.

Thanks. This is definitely not a very 'real world' comparison, but we were still comparing b series motors with f/h motors.

[palinix]

luckily, HP is a function of torque, so the more torque you have, the more HP you have. neat, isnt it.

Are you sure that statment is correct?

[ACC0RD22]

Are you sure that statment is correct?

Positive.

Hp = (tq x RPM)/5250

this equation is the reason that all hp and tq curves cross at 5250 RPM.

[deevergote]

Get that math off my board, nerd!