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    How the American tax system works

    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh would pay $7.
    The eighth would pay $12.
    The ninth would pay $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.



    So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.


    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.


    And so:


    The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
    The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).



    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
    ‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’


    ‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’


    ‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’


    ‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’


    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.


    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!


    And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


    David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
    Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

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    #2
    Originally posted by JohnD1079 View Post
    University of Georgia
    Whooooooooot!

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      #3
      That said, the facts that major multi-billion dollar companies paid $0 in taxes last year is laughable.
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        #4
        perhaps they're not drinking beer anymore.

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          #5
          Originally posted by JohnD1079 View Post
          perhaps they're not drinking beer anymore.
          They're probably brewing their own beer

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            #6
            Thanks for starting this John .. I've seen that before (and copy-cats of it)
            I've always liked some of the debates that ensue as well ..

            There's a lot of talk right now about "The Fair Tax" .. whuddya you guys think of it?
            I mean, we're sorta on the same topic, and if it'll stimulate good discussion ..
            WE have business men right here on the forum, as well as alotta broke-a$$-motha-f'er's .. sooo ..

            Whose this fair tax gonna work out better for ... ?
            Does it take time? Or does everyone get to reap rewards right outta the gate?
            Here's a link ..
            http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...eallyFair.aspx
            Good article I linked .. ^ .. I'd love to hear some feedback ..

            I for one would love to do away with the IRS .. (The Federal Reserve as well)
            But how do we compensate and still maintain (or build new) infrastucture?
            To also have to pay 260K for a home instead of 200K would kina bite too.

            Don't mean to thread-jack at all, but if this fair tax is NOT the answer ..
            and we all know that we don't like how it's done right now .. what's your answer?
            C'mon .. we have some articulate and well educated CB7Tuuuner's right here man!
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            I always like to hear what you guys have to say .. anyone? Throw it out!




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              #7
              Originally posted by JohnD1079 View Post
              insanely long OP
              Any idea what tax structure that system is based off of? Been trying to work some numbers based on our current tax system and the numbers all come out different.
              Last edited by JoshM; 09-19-2011, 08:03 PM.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Pandemic View Post
                That said, the facts that major multi-billion dollar companies paid $0 in taxes last year is laughable.
                If you're talking about GE, they experienced a $32 billion dollar loss from their financial services which offset gains. No one is claiming that GE didn't pay taxes illegaly, they used the system as it is to reduce their tax burden, just as any company or individual would.

                That said, companies don't really pay taxes, they collect them from their customers. Taxes are a business expense that companies roll into the price of their products. The high taxes on US companies simply cause them to have to raise their prices so they become uncompetitive; that's why they move to more business friendly countries.

                If the government were to be brutally honest, they would admit that eventually all taxes fall on the people.
                Last edited by Fleetw00d; 09-19-2011, 07:51 PM.
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                  #9
                  I think fair tax is brilliant.

                  Even for someone like me, who pays almost no tax and gets a massive return each year- I would rather keep my own money upfront, than take someone elses down the road. Because if all I buy is basics and food, I would still pay almost no tax, but I wouldn't get money at the end of the year that I didn't earn...and I'm ok with that. Because down the line, when I make more money, I get to keep it.

                  My BF gets bumF*d by taxes, he would make almost 800 more dollars a month under a fair tax structure.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by LadyG View Post
                    My BF gets bumF*d by taxes, he would make almost 800 more dollars a month under a fair tax structure.
                    Before anyone says anything....I realize Im Canadian and we pay taxes differently

                    That being said.....last pay I made 3800 before taxes.....wanna know what I came home with

                    2050

                    wanna know how much money I got back last year for taxes

                    68 dollars

                    I gotta start paying into RRSPs and make contributions to charities and shit to see any real returns.


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                      #11
                      Lots of large businesses don't pay INCOME tax because they have tax breaks and can offset income with losses that individuals can't necessarily claim (depreciation is a big one....it's a tax deduction but not an actual cashflow expense, it's a "book" expense). Businesses pay MASSIVE amounts of taxes on their employee's wages that most people don't even realize. Next pay stub, calculate your medicare, unemployment, and social security taxes and know that your employer matches everything you pay, everything each employee pays every week. It adds up to a LOT.

                      My advice: Start a home-based business like I do. I can claim a portion of all of my household expenses against my ordinary income simply because I own a home-based business. I make more income than before the business but pay less taxes because pretty much anything can be claimed as a business expense legally. I know this because I have a MBA in Accounting, this is why the rich pay much less tax, they hire people to figure out how they can keep as much money as possible.

                      As far as the current tax system...I think it is erroneous, unfair. I believe in a flat-tax system with protection from tax for those below poverty line and a 1% incremental up to a maximum of 10% flat tax on all income over poverty. It would work like this for a 2-person household:

                      Up to $20k 0% tax
                      $20k - $23k 1% tax
                      $23k - $26k 2% tax
                      $26k - $29k 3% tax
                      $29k - $32k 4% tax
                      $32k - $35k 5% tax
                      $35k - $38k 6% tax
                      $38k - $41k 7% tax
                      $41k - $44k 8% tax
                      $44k - $47k 9% tax
                      $47k - $UP 10% tax

                      Flat tax with absolutely no credits, no exemptions. You make X, you pay tax on X.

                      As for the FED: It has to go before our economy will stabilize. The way it's setup is is impossible for this country to get out of debt, absolutely impossible. It needs to be dissolved and the U.S. Gov't needs a new department in charge of physically printing the money to distribute to the economy (this eliminates the interest we pay to the FED for every dollar they print). This would do wonders to stabilize the country.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by King James View Post
                        Before anyone says anything....I realize Im Canadian and we pay taxes differently

                        That being said.....last pay I made 3800 before taxes.....know what I came home with

                        2050

                        Know how much money I got back last year for taxes

                        68 dollars

                        I gotta start paying into RRSPs and make contributions to charities and shit to see any real returns.
                        What are you allowed to deduct as business expenses in Canada? Start a legitimate home-based business. A business can claim household utilities, mortgage, phone bill, etc as expenses and take a loss, this then flows into your personal tax return as a negative income and lowers your taxable ordinary income.....resulting in less taxes owed. This is how the U.S. works anyway, you may want to check into it.
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                          #13
                          Thats a good idea on the business....but i dont have the time to keep up with anything....work 50-60 hours a week and I live in a bachelor apartment haha

                          I pay as much as I do in taxes cuz we pay into healthcare and shit like that.....shit sucks....but at least I know im covered if I dont have insurance and I break a bone.

                          I can claim a lot for shit like gas, meals, lodging, vehicle related shit, ect. next year cuz I work on a spareboard and travel all over the place for work....coulda last year too...but I was an idiot and didnt save my receipts.

                          The easiest way for me to see more of a return is by doing RRSPs....from what im told for every grand i put in Ill get back 300-400 at tax time....plus it works out for later in life.

                          Its kinda pointless for me as a Canadian to talk taxes to any Americans....shits way different up here
                          Last edited by King James; 09-19-2011, 08:26 PM.


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                            #14
                            Originally posted by 19dabeast85 View Post
                            As for the FED: It has to go before our economy will stabilize. The way it's setup is is impossible for this country to get out of debt, absolutely impossible. It needs to be dissolved and the U.S. Gov't needs a new department in charge of physically printing the money to distribute to the economy (this eliminates the interest we pay to the FED for every dollar they print). This would do wonders to stabilize the country.
                            A-Fricken-Men

                            Originally posted by King James View Post
                            I pay as much as I do in taxes cuz we pay into healthcare and shit like that.....shit sucks....but at least I know im covered if I dont have insurance and I break a bone.

                            Lucky.
                            I broke my elbow and hand a few years back riding a gravity board...I still owe $600+, and a nasty cut a few months ago was $400+ for the ER visit, and that was just to have someone give me a script.
                            Not having health ins. BLOWS.
                            I blame Canada.










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                              #15
                              You're assuming the government is interested in equality, which is not to say that there aren't specific tax loops available to certain groups that completely nullify tax codes completely.

                              CPA's and Tax Lawyers are AMAZING assets, but they do cost a pretty penny.
                              Last edited by verothacamaro; 09-19-2011, 09:43 PM.
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