NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden..

[Ralphie]

There where no phones when the 4th amendment was written. Just like no drones, or machine guns. Or women's rights.

So my point exactly...

we didn't say fuck it and keep Women repressed...

Or decide not to use drones to protect US soldiers lives while in the sandbox.

or ban machine guns(omg really)


LOL.

We adjusted and made amendments and moved forward.

So why now should we take a step backwards? So you can feel good about yourself?

Less govt is always a good thing, Ill agree to that, but where does that end?

[Ralphie]

and I still don't understand the uproar over it.

What do you think the chances of them listening to your conversations are?

Probably nil.

Less then 1% chance.

So really?

I just don't get it.

Free Speech is the 1st one btw.....and im not asking to give it up, I just don't see the big deal over shit shit.

Bigger things to worry about these days then the govt listening to phone calls.

[LadyG]

Ralphie- You are doing what is called "a strawman argument". I'll say it again- if you don't care, than this admittance means nothing to you, and you can go back to your comfy bed o' ignorance.

I am against drone warfare. I feel if we can't see them with real eyes, than killing them is like playing call of duty, and I am against that.

Machine guns have no place in a civilian population. My Opinion.

And it was through the use of the democratic process OF GOVERNMENT that women's rights were won, but can you imagine if they had had the NSA during the 60's? How many protest organizers/civil rights leaders could have been locked up as "potential domestic terror suspects"?

I would rather take my chances getting blown up on an airplane, than to be ghosted because I disagree with the system.

[8ball]

In 5 years we will be exactly where we are today.

Maybe a little safer, most likely not, but you make it sound like we're going to be in prison camps as they peel away our rights and enslave us.

Stop watching tv and go outside and play.

It doesn't work that way.

Ill tell you once and again just block my comments if what I comment "kills3ou" I swear your the stankiest shit on the forum complaining trolling and trying to be little as much as you can under the radar. Change your diaper you lame!

& what will happen well idk , maybe a new civil war, maybe then ill get my chance at you. Diaper boy.

[deevergote]

Ooh, this is getting fun!

Let's see how many people I can ban today, shall we?
Keep it going, kiddos.

[bigpoppa694lyfe]

Please tell me your not referring to semi automatic rifles as "machine guns". Ill be the first one to admit that civilians have no real need for a fully automatic gun but then again its nearly impossible to get them in this country whether legally or illegally. Most fully automatic guns cost a few thousand dollars just to buy and once you tack on all the federal and state permits & taxes and your looking at nearly $8k just to own one. Street value your looking at $5-10k. I will however fully support any and every sane law abiding citizen who wants to buy a semi automatic rifle that can accept a "high capacity" magazine. It's our god given right to own and openly use these types of weapons whether for sport or home defense. Nothing irritates me more than when somebody says that i have no logical reason to have or use a gun that holds more than 7-10 rounds. Given our current standing in this world its not exactly unlikely that we would get invaded by another country or hell... Even zombies. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it happened within the next 10 years. North Korea seems pretty pissed at us.

[Ralphie]

Ralphie- You are doing what is called "a strawman argument". I'll say it again- if you don't care, than this admittance means nothing to you, and you can go back to your comfy bed o' ignorance.

I am against drone warfare. I feel if we can't see them with real eyes, than killing them is like playing call of duty, and I am against that.

Machine guns have no place in a civilian population. My Opinion.

And it was through the use of the democratic process OF GOVERNMENT that women's rights were won, but can you imagine if they had had the NSA during the 60's? How many protest organizers/civil rights leaders could have been locked up as "potential domestic terror suspects"?

I would rather take my chances getting blown up on an airplane, than to be ghosted because I disagree with the system.

its easy for you to say when you haven't served a day of your life in the military.

Drones do more then kill people. They also protect thousands of troops and save plenty of lives.

I'm still waiting for an argument rather then opinions and complaints.

[Ralphie]

So if we have to see the enemy with our eyes, i guess we can get rid of the field artillery brigades since they don't physically see the people they hit.

The airmen who drop bombs. The naval fleet that sends off sea to air missles.

[toycar]

Geeze I fly half way across the country and all hell breaks loose.


Lol


Missed too much to try and catch up from my phone.


Ralphie, 4th amendment DOES protect you on the phone, just like you car is considered an extension of your home so domain laws apply.

Wether you see it or not, allowing programs to exist that violate our constitutional rights isn't cool. This program clearly does that.


Pinging in the algorithm cannot equate to probable cause, learn about probable cause man.

I wish I wasn't on my phone so I could type out some BOOK of an answer about this.


Anyways.

I was all for drones until they decided it was legal to use them against citizens on US soil. That crossed the line for me.


8ball, I actually like you man but you do come off as a conspiracy theorist. Maybe reflect on that, because i think it's unintended.

[PakaloloHonda]

And really, the point is not about now- its about the long game. Who's to say that by us even having this conversation, now, that in 5 years this wouldn't "ping" us in an algorithm? Its all about lines, and where we are willing to draw them.

And I SCREAM this to people everyday .. yet, it seems to fall on deaf ears.
Most of the young people I deal with everyday, are living the "now."
There seems to be no concern about the near or not too distant future. "long game"
It's more of a, "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it" type of attitude.
"No problem, by that time, the gov. will have it all figured out. I'm not worried."
It scares the shit out of me .. seriously!

And may I remind everyone, 9/11 didn't happen because the Patriot Act didn't exist- it happened because the frame work of security we already had, dropped the ball. Rather than fixing the agencies already in place- we made an even bigger bureaucracy, with even more power.

I could NOT have said this ^ any better ...
Now, according to some poll that was taken earlier today somewhere, somehow,
56% don't mind at all about being "monitored" .. g'head, give um all your rights folks!
Give um all more, and more power ..
Why not just tear up the entire constitution and toss it in the can .. afterall, it's so old.

I met a guy from Syria today, that has lived in America for 13 years.
Well to do commercial real-estate agent. Articulate and intellegent, well spoken dude!
He said when the American people lose their constitution and all their rights,
then, and only then, will they realize why people like me became an American.

[Ispintechno]

I haven't dug into this NSA thing to deeply yet, but those of you that have I don't confuse people that are "Awake" with people with "Tin Foil Hats". There is a difference. Research, learn, protest, make changes. Complacency is the enemy because the enemy these days are in our yard and are self serving at the expense of our freedoms and our health.

That said, if some agency is tapping my cell phone... I personally don't know how I feel about that. In a way I don't care I guess. Must be a boring job for them. What does matter is if it is in violation of what we as a people stand for and our civil liberties. Such a blurry line these days.

Only way we can fight back is change the way you vote, and change the way you buy.

If google Android is laden with new spyware buy the other guys, or visa versa. Although maybe NSA can listen on any cell phone whether it is turned on or off (remove the battery I guess).

I just watched these E3 Conferences on the new Microsoft Xbox One and Sony's PS4 and I can tell you big corporate government red flags on the Microsoft product. Always connected to the internet, always watching and listening to you through kinect. If you take it offline you just bought yourself a brick that won't let you game after 24 hours. Horrible controls on game ownership too, instead of buying you are leasing off the publishers and when the system goes offline after an admittedly long product cycle, it's totally dead as is your entire catalog of purchases.

At least Sony has maintained a non controlling, non spy machine for us. Yikes. Technology is a real headache. Point is if we buy the product which supports the technology we are against, we will never gain back any control.

[PakaloloHonda]

Errrr, look what I found .. pretty interesting read ...

How NSA access was built into Windows
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html

[8ball]

Errrr, look what I found .. pretty interesting read ...

How NSA access was built into Windows
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html

it was built in throught vista using XP and now in windows 7 using vista... people really didnt know this before? (you can find it in the "hidden" grub menu) its not really hidden if you know where to look.
LOL - tin foil hat they said.
This is part of the reason that Windows XP will no longer be supported, because XP is harder to eavesdrop on, although maybe not so much anymore with advances in cracking and all.

The difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is that the theory has no considerable proof.

Thats like me backing up the idea that aliens exist and that the government is talking to them. I have never found any actually proof of this (no credible sources etc.) but on all the other stuff I believe all of it can be found if you search long enough. Well maybe not any more, google has really censored what sites populate now.... :/ sucks.

btw the back door for windows is a double edge sword, on one side you can use EFS (its an encryption type built in to windows) to your advantage or let your self be completely open to abuse. Kinda like when microsoft bought skype... before this purchase skype WAS a VERY secure protocol to communicate with out being tapped. And as I recall the government request VARIOUS times to be able to tap skype. Im not going into further details you guys can explore the interweb and find the info, its there from credible sources too I may add.

[Ralphie]

http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/201...s-and-you?lite

When I read about it a few days ago, It didn't say anything about emails etc. So I was just going off of what I read, which was phone calls.

The way that article makes it sound, is as if they are gaining quite a bit of information on people. That is a little too far to be comfortable, so I do appologize for jumping at people as I had little information and didn't have all my facts.


I still stand by my feelings though.

The way I see it, is they may have overstepped their boundaires and obviously we allowed them this access via the Patriot Act or whatever, but at the end of the day, this PRISM system, is a tool. So instead of losing our minds and shutting it down, why don't we find a way to make it transparent enough and add the right hurdles so that our privacy is not breached, but so they can continue their job.

Idk, that seems fair to me.

[toycar]

it was built in throught vista using XP and now in windows 7 using vista... people really didnt know this before? (you can find it in the "hidden" grub menu) its not really hidden if you know where to look.
LOL - tin foil hat they said.
This is part of the reason that Windows XP will no longer be supported, because XP is harder to eavesdrop on, although maybe not so much anymore with advances in cracking and all.

The difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is that the theory has no considerable proof.

Thats like me backing up the idea that aliens exist and that the government is talking to them. I have never found any actually proof of this (no credible sources etc.) but on all the other stuff I believe all of it can be found if you search long enough. Well maybe not any more, google has really censored what sites populate now.... :/ sucks.

btw the back door for windows is a double edge sword, on one side you can use EFS (its an encryption type built in to windows) to your advantage or let your self be completely open to abuse. Kinda like when microsoft bought skype... before this purchase skype WAS a VERY secure protocol to communicate with out being tapped. And as I recall the government request VARIOUS times to be able to tap skype. Im not going into further details you guys can explore the interweb and find the info, its there from credible sources too I may add.

Yeah Im not doubting that you have read enough to stuff to probably convince most people-you are just kind of passionate about it when the conversation gets going and some of the stuff YOU believe, well, its not for everyone.


Some of it is, and theres nothing wrong with sharing all of it. Just maybe not so passionately when you hit a wall against someone that hasn't connected the dots yanno?


10 people could see the same thing happen and all have a different version of the story. Now, Im not trying to discredit anything or anyone. Just that, what seems like a conspiracy to you, doesn't to others. Period, end of story. Theres no need to make it about anything more than that. Some people see things the way you do, others don't.




The passion/emotion conviction that comes through when these conversations get out of hand is unsulting to people because the premise of your arguement is,"You just don't get it" or something to that affect. Most people DO get it, and so its a frustrating position to be in. Don't put people in that position is all I am saying.

IF people get it, great. If attempts 1&2 don't convince anyone of the same shit you believe, why not just let it go?



And yeah, the windows stuff being used for espionage basically, not cool. I don't know how anyone could know about this stuff and NOT feel like its a little weird.


Its not like I have something to hide. BUT, I would probably go outside and kicks someones ass for standing at the window watching me be normal being all creepy and such. At the least I would go outside and be like "What the fuck" and all this stuff to me is basically the same.

SO what I don't have anything to hide? I don't really want to be watched, its kinda creepy. I think the only reason people are OK with this is the personal fear attached to terrorism and how that relates to the blanket excuse the gov now has to do whatever they want to "prevent imminent attacks"


Like I just said, I would NOT allow a random person to just stand and watch me and my family through the window whenever they pleased. It WOULD be creepy and I WOULD NOT ALLOW IT even if whooping that persons ass meant going to jail. I am not kidding. I would not fuck around about something like that. Most likely I would go outside with a gun in my hand and lay down the fucking law like,"Get out of my yard or die"




So why is it so different for those that think these programs are OK? The broad reach of this stuff is alarming if you really think about it.


The cameras they are pushing for in cable boxes, new generation Xbox shit IS A LITTLE WEIRD TO BE HONEST WITH YOU GUYS, they have tapped into cell phones via warrants to monitor people through the cameras, I mean, what else?


It is a little creepy. Now to think that everything we type, every txt, every phone call, every transaction, every single thing is being tracked now?


Holy fuck. That IS CREEPY.