NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden..

[toycar]

Maybe he was just defending himself against the programs? and has right to fair trial? I don't know about these things.






...I never did click on your link before lol, but I just did, and

Chart 3 and Table 1 shows that Black people are a far greater number in poverty without social security, and an even more drastic difference for those in poverty with social security, so I don't see any big advantage this gives them, other than to stop them from dropping dead all over the streets so everyone can see the real problem. (and its not that they are lazy and smoke too much weed) Marijuana legalization in the vast white majority states of WA and CO Im sure reduced the drug numbers a lot for 'white' users, as far as stats

But following your advice I got a little more educated on the 'benefits' lol topic which was simply a minor symptom of a greater problem to me;

http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/MENU/Pub...cteristics.pdf

these just came out in june, and shows those who actually eat food off the gov/usda conglomerate is

36.6%white
22.8%black
and about 35%for everyone else

and for SSI (which I also don't know much about) I didn;t find charts on a one search, but this is what the government put out to educate those concerned

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/facts...emographic.htm

◦In 2011, the median earnings of working-age African Americans who worked full-time, year round were about $35,000, compared to $42,000 for all working-age people.

But whose counting

Yeah man we are basically beating a dead horse at this point. Look at the number of people on food stamps before Obama, then after. Food stamps vs welfare is different too. Compare the big picture if you will, rather than one specific program that supports your claims.

Lets not forget the number of people that equate to 36% vs the number of people that equate to 22% of the total fund. Think about how many people(white vs black or whatever) there actually are.



Yes, social seurity supports a large portion of AA communities, and the statistics of poverty of people not getting SSI that live in poverty is outrageous. As I had previously mentioned, the 12 year old article was outdated, and the current standing of poverty numbers with and without SSI is staggering. It is becoming clear that the fund IS supporting the demographic.

No hard feelings intended, the facts are just the facts.





Why do you suppose that is? I mean, i feel like you disagree with my explanation so I am curious what is your own?






Non confrontational approach here, educate me on your opinion. I have expressed my own, even though it is controversial, I think I have explained it thoroughly enough that common sense understands 99% of what I am saying.


Lets hear your opinion on why so many AA's are living in poverty, and why so many of them rely on our system.



Hows about we agree to keep it non-confrontational, and maybe others will partake in our conversation too?


Please though, if you are going to "let me have it" then have some hard factual stuff that supports your case.


If you just want to drop an opinion, do that too. Just, please, dont be a giant douche with nothing to support what you are saying.


Just like I was saying earlier, if 228 million people are responsible for 36%(your numbers now) of the fund, and 44 million people are responsible for 22%(again, your numbers) of the fund, obviously less of the 228 million people are getting help compared to the 44 million.

Using your numbers, the same pattern still follows.

If the fund was 1 billion dollars, 36% would be 360 million dollars or $360,000,000/228,000,000 white people = $1.57 per person on average. 22% of 1 billion would be $220,000,000 or 220,000,000/44,000,000 AA people = $5 per person on average.


So yeah, AA demographic still is drawing money 3+ times faster faster than whites. 3x$1.57 = $4.71 per person. So yeah, more than 3x faster.



Why do you suppose that is?


And with a black president in office, please don't come back trying to argue about no opportunity, that the white people control shit, or anything that maybe offensive. There is no longer an excuse like that that is valid, now that the commander and chief is AA-obviously, AA people can do anything they put their minds too.

So, explain please why this is the way it is?

[DCB7]

Well, like I said, one of my parents is indian, and I was not born in this country, and I am only one of 44million with the stroke of a pen, so I don't think I'm qualified to be the great explainer of African people in this country.

My opinion personally? "Why hammer at the door where you are not wanted"

Obviously my foreparents decided to try and work it out, to civilize the people oppressing them, based on the reasoning that no matter how high the percentage is of them that are giant douches, its not all of them so let us not condemn them based on race, but based on the merit of their individual character.

I can respect the high moral content of the sentiment. And I support it, to a high percentage.

If you want 'factual data' meaning regurgitating stats and numbers, I'm not proud of myself when I do so, because I know better. Platitude is not honourable.

We cannot deal with numbers in a vaccum, as if the population difference, culture clash and history have no bearing on them.

If you want to say that 44 million people (meaning the African citizens of this country, even those who didnt receive anything) as a whole are pulling money from a poor assistance program 3 times as fast as 228 million (meaning the European citizens of this country, even those who don't qualify) where the program does not have race specific guidlines or qualifications, (it is totally financial based) then why would this be a cause to want to reform welfare as a regular citizen, who apparently doesn't need it. If it were 3 times more 'white' citizens, then I could see you saying, "Hey, there's some BS going on here". To qualify for these things, I mean, you got to be pretty destitute, compared to the general population in this country specifically. Why would I want to give those people a harder time, if I'm not willing to help, even morally, what would motivate me to get all douched up about it? If your child became misguided, or found him/herself in a bad situation, would you just say fk em? Just shoot em? I dont think so. If some numbers tell you the group you are in is being publicized as being the most destitute of the country (what's new) despite all the good things you see them doing, on a deliberately un level playing field....

So I've heard these things since I came to the country, (I'm coming from a 90% black population country) about how black people are lazy and this that, so when I saw that you are one who claims to believe it, I wanted you to elaborate so maybe I could understand the thinking more. And I admit, it was your long diatribe ad nauseum about how you're not afraid to call black people so called n word to their face, and when they pull the 'race card' you have a systematic way to throw it right back in their face, along with pokololo honda's comments, that made me prick you a little bit to expose your feeling of black people in this country as a whole. You have made me more informed about your position a little.

I watch FOX news time to time, so I am familiar with the stream of thought, but if you claim not to know why, and you want to know, I would say study African American history and put yourself in their shoes. If you are overwhelmed with guilt, I would suggest avoiding 2 reactions specifically. 1) Giving a lot to dogs, and becoming a great animal saviour (while saying fuck em, they (African americans) deserved the treatment they got, look at them now. 2)Being one of those throwing a couple cents to charities for poor black (and brown) people, and to those giving dry rice and getting grants to travel the world for no reason than personal gratification.

If you have no empathy towards African American or other disadvantaged peoples' situation, well, it's a free country. At least we don't have to worry about being locked up for our opinions, I think. I anticipate your insult. Thanks for the reasoning though.

[toycar]

Well, like I said, one of my parents is indian, and I was not born in this country, and I am only one of 44million with the stroke of a pen, so I don't think I'm qualified to be the great explainer of African people in this country.

My opinion personally? "Why hammer at the door where you are not wanted"

Obviously my foreparents decided to try and work it out, to civilize the people oppressing them, based on the reasoning that no matter how high the percentage is of them that are giant douches, its not all of them so let us not condemn them based on race, but based on the merit of their individual character.

I can respect the high moral content of the sentiment. And I support it, to a high percentage.

If you want 'factual data' meaning regurgitating stats and numbers, I'm not proud of myself when I do so, because I know better. Platitude is not honourable.

We cannot deal with numbers in a vaccum, as if the population difference, culture clash and history have no bearing on them.

If you want to say that 44 million people (meaning the African citizens of this country, even those who didnt receive anything) as a whole are pulling money from a poor assistance program 3 times as fast as 228 million (meaning the European citizens of this country, even those who don't qualify) where the program does not have race specific guidlines or qualifications, (it is totally financial based) then why would this be a cause to want to reform welfare as a regular citizen, who apparently doesn't need it. If it were 3 times more 'white' citizens, then I could see you saying, "Hey, there's some BS going on here". To qualify for these things, I mean, you got to be pretty destitute, compared to the general population in this country specifically. Why would I want to give those people a harder time, if I'm not willing to help, even morally, what would motivate me to get all douched up about it? If your child became misguided, or found him/herself in a bad situation, would you just say fk em? Just shoot em? I dont think so. If some numbers tell you the group you are in is being publicized as being the most destitute of the country (what's new) despite all the good things you see them doing, on a deliberately un level playing field....

So I've heard these things since I came to the country, (I'm coming from a 90% black population country) about how black people are lazy and this that, so when I saw that you are one who claims to believe it, I wanted you to elaborate so maybe I could understand the thinking more. And I admit, it was your long diatribe ad nauseum about how you're not afraid to call black people so called n word to their face, and when they pull the 'race card' you have a systematic way to throw it right back in their face, along with pokololo honda's comments, that made me prick you a little bit to expose your feeling of black people in this country as a whole. You have made me more informed about your position a little.

I watch FOX news time to time, so I am familiar with the stream of thought, but if you claim not to know why, and you want to know, I would say study African American history and put yourself in their shoes. If you are overwhelmed with guilt, I would suggest avoiding 2 reactions specifically. 1) Giving a lot to dogs, and becoming a great animal saviour (while saying fuck em, they (African americans) deserved the treatment they got, look at them now. 2)Being one of those throwing a couple cents to charities for poor black (and brown) people, and to those giving dry rice and getting grants to travel the world for no reason than personal gratification.

If you have no empathy towards African American or other disadvantaged peoples' situation, well, it's a free country. At least we don't have to worry about being locked up for our opinions, I think. I anticipate your insult. Thanks for the reasoning though.

Ok, so basically you have no factual merit to base your opinion on, refuse to acknowledge any FACTUAL studies, and assume I know nothing about black culture and then accuse me of being racist.


Gotcha. So, again, what exactly is the explanation for this disturbing drain on our social programs again?


Oh that's right, you think all of the FACTUAL PROOF is bogus, and then double down on that feeling with the idea that we SHOULD support those poor, oppressed people of America.


Mmmmmhhhhmmmmmm, preach on brother, preach on. Those poor souls in america with no opportunity, nobody cares about them. Oh god, whatever shall we do......

[DCB7]

Give them a piss test and paint brush?

Maybe they can form an organization to help themselves. Oh wait...

Race is too touchy. Period, end of story.


If someone, anyone, wants to pull the race card they generally do. It is complete fucking bullshit most of the time if you ask me.


The NAACP(National associtation for the advancement of colored people) offends me. Seriously, aren't we all colored?


My color is white. Why does the NAACP exclude me and act like in this day and age there needs to be a coalition like that. And, isn't the term "colored people" offensive?


^^^^


See what I did there?


So basically, yeah. Race and the racism bullshit to me is all exactly that. Bullshit. I don't give one single ounce of extra shit about anyone.

I am as white as honky gets, and I say the n word around my black friends all the time. Just like they all me honky, cracka and white boy.


Whatever. Just the other day I pulled a Dave Chappell and was like,"they should of never gave you n***** money. Fuck yo couch, n**** fuck yo couch" and we all laughed like hell and thought it was funny.


Race only matters to people that are too sensitive about race, most of the time.


I realize sometimes people are racist fucking assholes, but there is plenty of room for fun/jokes before crossing that line.

really? African people make up the overwhelming majority of the population of the world, and things are obviously serious. I don't think Dave Chappell and others like him qualify as 'black culture'. Its ok though, black people will be alright, don't worry about it. (preach on brother?)

[toycar]

And from those posts you gather that I am racist eh?


That's funny right there. Real funny.



You are really dense if you can't read between the lines in my posts you quoted, and understand what I am saying. It amazes me that you see racism in those posts. It does.



***Edit***


I actually think you fit into the category of person I was describing in the posts you quoted. Being too sensitive about race.


I threw out some TRUE STATISTICS and you were too sensitive to handle it and turned this conversation into a conversation about racism-with some very borderline offensive, non factualy rhetoric too might I add.


You turned this conversation into race, and then posted a link to a story about how "white people gobble up all the welfare" and shit.


Get fucking real man. You have talked full circle in this conversatoin, and now that you cannot deflect the real FACTS ABOUT MINORITIES AND ASSITANCE, you are squirming around trying to turn this shit back into a conversation about race.


I haven't said a single negative thing about any race in this thread. Go read everything I said, and tell me where I singled out a race in a negative fashion to make anyone look bad.





ITS NOT MY FAULT THE REAL STATISTICAL FACTUAL DATA PAINTS SUCH AN UGLY PICTURE.




You want to act like you are above quoting statistics, because "you know better" but you sure are quick to throw them around when you think it will make white people look bad aren't you?!

If you want 'factual data' meaning regurgitating stats and numbers, I'm not proud of myself when I do so, because I know better.

these just came out in june, and shows those who actually eat food off the gov/usda conglomerate is

36.6%white
22.8%black
and about 35%for everyone else

Yeah I think people see the "racism" in this thread buddy

[DCB7]

yah

[Ralphie]

How does this garbage have anything to do with Snowden or the NSA?

[PakaloloHonda]

See .. this is NOT where I wanna see this go Ralph.
This is where the thread either gets locked or people get banned. Or both!

I for one am really enjoying BOTH TC and DC's responses to each other.
They're both making great points, and IMHFO are doing so in a very articulate manner. Thank you very much!

I really, REALLY enjoy "philosophizing" about this particular topic, and those that are similar.
DC, you referenced my name in association with a post I made in this thread?
I can't find it right now, but what was it that either impressed you or didn't lol?
I think you misspelled my name? and when I hit Ctrl + F .. I couldn't find it.

I'd like to participate in this conversation, but I ... like DC along with TC,
certainly do not wanna see this thread go to the wayside.
You both bring very valid points to two different opinions. It's very interesting, to say the least.

I wish more people, who actually experience it on a day to day basis, step up and post.
Like TC said when he started this thread, please don't turn this into "your" agenda.

It's what I love about the internet .. you can find people with the same interests, (CB7T anyone?)
and it's like .. before you know it, there's a thousand members, a lot of which have met,
most/some that haven't, but the difference in opinion: WHEN THE THREAD CAN STAY ON TOPIC ...
is a great read, and an education in and of itself sometimes. Some of you guys blow me away!
Err, and you ladies also .. Monica ..
I really enjoy the threads that the 3 of you indulge in actually... obviously well educated ..
Wheww .. really? There is hope after-all? LMAO! You guys make me feel a liiilll better ..

I think TC and DC got a good, "thought provoking" start going on here ..
I'd really like to see this atleast get half way through before a mod blows it up.
Deev .. back away from the high explosives .. please ..

Some people here could learn ALOT from both DC and TC .. open they're links ..
it's faster then looking it all up yourself ..

I can also "feel" in reading your posts the true respect that you have for each other ..
Well, for the most part anyway ... .. Nice to see the CB7T represent ..

Post it up you guys .. and gals ..

[LadyG]

This is definitely NOT on topic for the thread- and as a moderator I have responsibility to redirect and ish- so lets open a thread on the topic of Minorities and Assistance, (Also, Pakalolo, more people- and a broader range of views could be brought into this.) and see what comes of it.

SO, guys... One of Yall open a thread on the topic- you could even copy over your posts from this thread. BUT

We gotta talk about Eddy Boy- sitting in a Moscow Airport...
Just like that Movie "Terminal"!!
I bet that's where he got that idea!!

[Quashish]

So now this guys dad has a lawyer and is trying to negotiate a deal for Snowden to come back. What do you guys think about that?

He will come back and die in a tragic accident or of some strange natural cause like an early heart attack. He won't get the gag order deal.

you meant to say "He will come back and die in a "tragic accident" or of some strange "natural cause" like an early heart attack. He won't get the gag order deal"

[wildBill83]

you meant to say "He will come back and die in a "tragic accident" or of some strange "natural cause" like an early heart attack. He won't get the gag order deal"

Yes, you are "correct".

[DCB7]

DC, you referenced my name in association with a post I made in this thread?
I can't find it right now, but what was it that either impressed you or didn't lol?
I think you misspelled my name? and when I hit Ctrl + F .. I couldn't find it.

PakaloloHonda, sorry. Well sir, thank you for your words there. I was referring to the post (after you blamed President Obama for everything wrong with the world, and cussed him out) where you said you hope you're dead and gone before America becomes a Mexico or Ethiopia, because of all the immigrants, and then the savages will 'start' killing each other. When in reality, with the tainted history and all, America, no offense, could never be a MExico or Ethiopia which are two of the oldest civilizations in the world. Mexico with the Aztecs, down to Inca, Mayans and Olmecs. Ethiopia, the oldest in the world, I dont know if you are a Bible man, but ethiopia is even in the creation story for goodness sake (Gen. 2:13). Meaning Ethiopia was already there when the Creator made the world.

The xenophobia link was for you, but you didn't bite

Truthfully, I've been past it, its just the news has been so distressing, apart from Eddy and psycho man, there's the...(i dont know what to call them) getting their law going, repealing 14 ammendment, even the overkill on Paula Dean (notice African people weren't the most outraged) kinda weird, so I figured I'd knock and see if Toycar was home.

But I've officially been banned from the news (I'm getting to buy my rotors out of it though) Plus i dont think I have any intellectual self pleasuring left in me for a while so I'm done.

I apologize for my part in pulling the thread off topic

[PakaloloHonda]

PakaloloHonda, sorry. Well sir, thank you for your words there. I was referring to the post (after you blamed President Obama for everything wrong with the world, and cussed him out) where you said you hope you're dead and gone before America becomes a Mexico or Ethiopia, because of all the immigrants, and then the savages will 'start' killing each other. When in reality, with the tainted history and all, America, no offense, could never be a MExico or Ethiopia which are two of the oldest civilizations in the world. Mexico with the Aztecs, down to Inca, Mayans and Olmecs. Ethiopia, the oldest in the world, I dont know if you are a Bible man, but ethiopia is even in the creation story for goodness sake (Gen. 2:13). Meaning Ethiopia was already there when the Creator made the world.

The xenophobia link was for you, but you didn't bite

Truthfully, I've been past it, its just the news has been so distressing, apart from Eddy and psycho man, there's the...(i dont know what to call them) getting their law going, repealing 14 ammendment, even the overkill on Paula Dean (notice African people weren't the most outraged) kinda weird, so I figured I'd knock and see if Toycar was home.

But I've officially been banned from the news (I'm getting to buy my rotors out of it though) Plus i dont think I have any intellectual self pleasuring left in me for a while so I'm done.

I apologize for my part in pulling the thread off topic

DC .. the name's Tomi. .. and you're quite welcome, much deserved I assure you.

LOL, I read the Xenophobia link and shrugged it.
Yeah, I'm not sure that I've ever had this much hate for any human in my entire life lol!
I've been called racist because of it. KKK has even been brought up.
I was once asked how many babies I've reaped LMFAO!
I've even been told that I have Xenophobia .. so, you ain't the first .. perhaps the reason I didn't "bite."

But I'll bite for a moment ..
(#1) Racism: I believe that Colin Powell would've been one of the greatest Presidents in History!
He's a fucking General .. Hussein wasn't even a Boy-Scout, let alone a military man.
I GAURENFUCKINTEE THAT BEGAZI WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN AN 8 HOUR SLAUGHTER!

(#2)Baby Raper: yeahh, those are the debates that were from people that Rush calls, "low information voters."
Cause that's all they can come back with .. they're too busy watching porn, playing video games,
or texting the day away with someone that's in aisle 2, while they're standing in aisle 12!
They aren't educated enough TO debate anything except MMF .. or fantasy football!

(#3) Xenophobia: I simply laugh it off .. you and I both know that's not true.
Besides, I've been told far too many times that I'm educated on most things worldly and politically,
by professors, to clients behind the lens, and a lot of passengers in the cab.
I've been termed, "common sense" and "practical" by my boss (a woman)
I try to treat people the way I like to be treated ..

I have NO affiliation with any racist group or groups. I've never raped anyone, that wasn't willing ..
and I don't consider myself to be a recipient of Xenophobia.

It's really simple .. really, really, really simple.
When a sequester get's mandated, and lil kids aren't able to tour The White House,
and The Navy can't have F/16's do fly over's for graduation day? .. BUT
but, YOU, as president can jump on Air Force One and spend a HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to go Africa?

Sure thing boss .. yep .. shows ME where this fuck-wad places HIS priorities.
It's like me stepping into your face and saying, "FUCK YOU, now whuddya gonna do about it?"

DISCLAIMER:
I'm done here also .. with all due respect, I assure you DC! And I mean that.
I believe that Monica made a great point in saying that we should make another thread.
Although I am of the belief that MOST topics like this sometimes need to get off track so that they can get back on track.
knowwhatimeanvern?
But I digress, Monica is absolutely correct.

This is always such a sensitive subject .. but it really needs to be discussed.
I firmly believe that EDWARD SNOWDEN .. see? I'm on topic now .. .. did the right thing.
Is he a hero? nahh. Is a traitor? NO fucking way jose! He. did. THE. right. thing.

The American people deserve better. AND, They deserve a better representative in The Oval Office.
Snowden gave up his LIFE, so that AMERICA might see the truth ..
It's so sad that most people are too lost in they're everyday life to educate themselves.

I'd be stoked to see you, or TC for that matter start another thread, where we could discuss Hussein ..
in an educated manner and not have the race card pulled, or be called KKK, and other shit.

I'll admit, I get a bit "irrational" or irritated and sometimes post before I think.
I'm honest. I ain't perfect ..

And no need for the apology, I was the one who took this thread OT .. so, yeah.
I won't post anymore in this thread unless of course it pertains to ole Ediie .. ok?
My apologies .. please.

[8ball]

PakaloloHonda, sorry. Well sir, thank you for your words there. I was referring to the post (after you blamed President Obama for everything wrong with the world, and cussed him out) where you said you hope you're dead and gone before America becomes a Mexico or Ethiopia, because of all the immigrants, and then the savages will 'start' killing each other. When in reality, with the tainted history and all, America, no offense, could never be a MExico or Ethiopia which are two of the oldest civilizations in the world. Mexico with the Aztecs, down to Inca, Mayans and Olmecs. Ethiopia, the oldest in the world, I dont know if you are a Bible man, but ethiopia is even in the creation story for goodness sake (Gen. 2:13). Meaning Ethiopia was already there when the Creator made the world.

The xenophobia link was for you, but you didn't bite

Truthfully, I've been past it, its just the news has been so distressing, apart from Eddy and psycho man, there's the...(i dont know what to call them) getting their law going, repealing 14 ammendment, even the overkill on Paula Dean (notice African people weren't the most outraged) kinda weird, so I figured I'd knock and see if Toycar was home.

But I've officially been banned from the news (I'm getting to buy my rotors out of it though) Plus i dont think I have any intellectual self pleasuring left in me for a while so I'm done.

I apologize for my part in pulling the thread off topic

thumbs up dude, gotta give it to Ethiopia, for never being conquered by a European nation. and their women are damn fine too. I used to think Ethiopia was what I saw on tv till my friend who is Ethiopian explained alot to me. Now he said Ethiopia is under control by Europeans but all behind closed doors, goverment curruption.

[DCB7]

Hey Tomi, David here, I hear you man, and I'm not judging. I don't think I would be good in such a discussion because I'd more than likely be coming from a cultural perspective most of the time.

As far as politics, I'm more from the cynical camp, where (I used to manage a small business franchise) so I don't see how it would be humanly possible for one man to be in control of something as (unnecessarily) complicated as the US gov., like who's at the wheel now? I see the president as more of a spokesman, and a lightning rod for when things go bad, at best a referee between the people actually calling shots.

But the people have spoken who they wanted in there, and to me it's good in terms of a less hate-inspiring face to represent the country to the world (compared to president Bush at least), a diplomat rather than a war man. They might have decided good relations with the world is the most important asset for national security, thus the trip to Africa (and 100 mill. might be less than a month of commercials during the campaign). Maybe we're seeing the era of power by brute force phasing out, so we can get down to some real living, I can only hope. But I don't put my faith in politicians.

There's a lot I don't understand, but I like to soak up whatever I can decipher from the debates and commentary and such, for education sake.

Thanks again man, and I'm done too, lol. Seriously I got to leave it alone

thumbs up dude, gotta give it to Ethiopia, for never being conquered by a European nation. and their women are damn fine too. I used to think Ethiopia was what I saw on tv till my friend who is Ethiopian explained alot to me. Now he said Ethiopia is under control by Europeans but all behind closed doors, goverment curruption.

for sure, they do seem to have a good gene pool for the female specimen over there. And you know, the whole continent we call Africa now and some of the Middle East was Ethiopia till relatively recently, and much of that conquering was way exaggerated. They were drawing lines through places, most of which they had never been, and didn't get a glimpse of till satellites. But now its India leasing up tons of precious farm land, China moving in on the industry, and Europe/US doing their NGO thing getting into the politics, idk. It's a big country though.