Suitable replacement for a Mini Cooper S? Under $10,000.

[owequitit]

If we go Mini again, it'll be because she's fond of the brand... and ONLY if we get one with a factory warranty!

Civic Si is a serious consideration, though not terribly "fun". C30 is out of the price range even if we wanted to, sadly.
GTI might be worth considering, even though neither of us has any love for VW.

I think you are seriously underestimating the fun quotient of a Civic Si. I am very much a traditionalist with cars (wasn't sure about the "cab forward" styling, and really didn't like the interior styling). However, take one for a good test drive (some cruising, back roads, places to open it up, etc). I very, very quickly fell in love with it, and that was after having a swapped CB7 that was well sorted. It is very nimble (it won't be as nimble as the Mini, but it won't be that far behind either), they are smooth, reasonably quiet, get decent MPG, but they are an absolute blast when you open them up! And if you don't need the practicality, the coupes are a little smaller and more intimate feeling. The only downside to the coupe is the visibility, and even that isn't awful.

I didn't really like the 8th gen Civic either until I tried it. You also have the advantage of the K20 being pretty much bulletproof, a fantastic transmission, limited slip (really livens up a FWD car) and decent utility. I just think it is one of those cars where people either didn't give a chance because they didn't like the styling, or they didn't give it a chance because they thought it was a "torqueless" Honda. I have 85,000 miles on mine (and you know I am not afraid to DRIVE it) and haven't really had any issues other than the sun visors, which are covered until 100K miles.

They probably aren't too hard to find a non-clapped out one yet either. I don't think I will ever sell mine. It is the last of the real high-revving Hondas and they really are gems. Quirky looking, but gems.

[AccordWarrior]

I can't think of a less practical car than that Mini. I know she wants Euro over a more boring Japanese / American car, but at this point, short of going CarMax and exploiting the warranty like Doug Demuro, one or two big repairs and you're sunk. Yes, I know it has a CPO warranty, but I worry about things that could be written off as "normal use", brakes, clutch, etc.

You mentioned to me last night that you were hoping to eventually move. That Mini has no cargo space. Sure, the CTS has a nice size trunk, and the Fit can move plenty of items, but how much longer do you see yourself having the Fit? You've been on the Miata kick for awhile now, so more than likely the Fit will be replaced. That will leave you with two two-seat cars and a large car, with no way to transport a larger item.

My suggestion for the Fiesta SFE was a fun to drive, cheap, practical car, which given your situation, I still advocate for. Don't forget, this isn't a 10-year car either, it's something to get you past a jam in your life, so you can put it on the back burner while you sort out the wedding stress, etc.

Honestly, Scott might be onto something with the lease. You don't have to worry about the mileage cap, so get something that has a low monthly payment and a 2-year term, drive it for the mean time, get yourself through school and back into a full time position and bank everything you can between now and then. That will set you up for something you really want in the end.

Regardless, we can all bench race as much as we want, but that isn't necessarily going to get us anywhere, either. Make your list and drive the cars and make your decision from there. Maybe it's age showing, but I do think practicality needs to be unfortunately part of the discussion. Get something more practical to replace the Mini, use the Fit to offset the payments and then use the extra cash you have at the end of the month to bank towards something fun.

[deevergote]

A truck will be a necessity when moving regardless, so a practical car isn't really terribly important.
The important thing is for her to have a car that she enjoys driving. Since she's been with me, she's been stuck in my tiny house, in our rapidly-declining town, with my income shrinking to next to nothing. We're making the best with what we have for our wedding, which is already 80% compromise. She even has to use my POS laptop because hers broke just after she moved in. Honestly, her Mini was the last thing she had that wasn't just "good enough". It was the last thing she had that she genuinely wanted, and now (most likely) that has been taken from her.
I know it sounds silly, but this is all in an effort to get her something that she'll like as much... or at least as close as possible. That's the reason I'm considering the Mini, more than anything else. I think it looks cool, but honestly, it wouldn't even be on my radar if I was shopping for myself!

The Civic Si is definitely getting a legitimate test drive. I hate the "cab forward" design as well (I hated it way back in the 90s when it became Chrysler's new gimmick). Still, I do understand that it's probably the best quality, performance, and utility for the money. The Fiesta is a close second (and better in the size/weight aspect... it'd feel more like a Mini.) The Mazda3 is probably next on the list.

We'll probably do things in that order:
CPO Mini Coupe
Civic Si
Fiesta SFE
Mazda3

Other notable considerations are:
CR-Z (probably ruled out for visibility concerns)
RSX (possibly ruled out due to age)
9-2x Aero (unlikely, unless we find a creampuff)

A lease is a possibility. We talked it over last night, and while neither of us loves the idea of "renting", it's worth exploring.

[owequitit]

A truck will be a necessity when moving regardless, so a practical car isn't really terribly important.
The important thing is for her to have a car that she enjoys driving. Since she's been with me, she's been stuck in my tiny house, in our rapidly-declining town, with my income shrinking to next to nothing. We're making the best with what we have for our wedding, which is already 80% compromise. She even has to use my POS laptop because hers broke just after she moved in. Honestly, her Mini was the last thing she had that wasn't just "good enough". It was the last thing she had that she genuinely wanted, and now (most likely) that has been taken from her.
I know it sounds silly, but this is all in an effort to get her something that she'll like as much... or at least as close as possible. That's the reason I'm considering the Mini, more than anything else. I think it looks cool, but honestly, it wouldn't even be on my radar if I was shopping for myself!

The Civic Si is definitely getting a legitimate test drive. I hate the "cab forward" design as well (I hated it way back in the 90s when it became Chrysler's new gimmick). Still, I do understand that it's probably the best quality, performance, and utility for the money. The Fiesta is a close second (and better in the size/weight aspect... it'd feel more like a Mini.) The Mazda3 is probably next on the list.

We'll probably do things in that order:
CPO Mini Coupe
Civic Si
Fiesta SFE
Mazda3

Other notable considerations are:
CR-Z (probably ruled out for visibility concerns)
RSX (possibly ruled out due to age)
9-2x Aero (unlikely, unless we find a creampuff)

A lease is a possibility. We talked it over last night, and while neither of us loves the idea of "renting", it's worth exploring.

A couple notes. The coupe is less cab forwardy than the sedan, but I don't think the weight difference is all that much between most of your other options and the Mini. Especially a fully loaded Cooper S. The Si, I know for a fact was only about 2800lbs.

That said, you have tradeoffs with all of them, so that comes down to her.

However, just to clarify, leasing is not the same as "renting" and that is very much a misnomer usually perpetuated by a lack of understanding. Even if you regard it as "renting" it is still more financially beneficial than "owning" unless you are in one of the two previous categories. The difference is that you are never obligated to keep a car that is worth less than you owe. If you have any kind of car payment, you are essentially renting until the car is paid for, you are just paying MORE for it. I know you wanted to buy a car outright and not have a payment initially, but it probably isn't just feasible.

My grandmother, who was wise beyond her years, used to say that you were pretty much always going to have a car payment and a house payment. Remember too that repair bills are effectively car payments.

[CyborgGT]

*cough*practicality*cough* I'll just drop this here. Ignore the fact that my transmission just grenaded itself, it's a typical crap Honda automatic.


That's a 12" sub box under the tarp. I've also fit the car's own hood back there (laid flat), as well as a twin mattress (mattress folded to close the hatch, box spring hung out the back a bit, on separate trips). The rear seats fold almost perfectly flat, so this thing's like a little pickup truck when I need it to be.

[deevergote]

Today's Minis are downright porky, so the Si would probably be comparable. The 1st gen that she had was a little shy of 2600lbs, I believe (still heavy for something called a Mini... but whatever...)

That's very true about the lease, and the repair bills. Lina's mentality is that if we buy it cheap, then money put into it to repair it will most likely end up costing less than buying a more expensive car (just a bit less convenient). I think I'd rather pay more up front and have something that isn't likely to break... with a warranty to cover anything that would be earth-shattering (like engine failure.)
I guess my issue with the lease is that we pay money to have the car each month, then when our term is up, we don't have a car in our possession to show for it. Granted, if we buy a car now for $12,000, put 10,000 miles a year on it, and sell it in 3 years for $7000, we've lost $5000 (and interest on whatever we finance). That's gambling on it being worth $7000 in 3 years.
If we lease a car for 3 years, we'd have to be paying less than $138/mo to be in the same position at the end of that period. I'm not sure how everything works exactly, so I don't know if that's feasible. And as far as I know, lease agreements often include money down, which is money that will never be seen again.

The Mini is officially totaled, but we're still waiting to hear how much we'll be getting for it.
I'm hoping to go out tonight and test drive a few cars. She's not terribly excited about the Fiesta, but it's a rational choice. We have a Ford dealership right down the street from us, halfway between our house and her work, which would make it VERY convenient in terms of service and repair. She found a manual Fiesta SE sedan (bleh) with 4,000 miles (unless it's a typo...) for $11,000. If that's legit, that's practically a new car. Not the SFE, unfortunately, but the mileage, if accurate, makes it worth a look.

The Civic Si will be a consideration. Hyundai Veloster as well. I still like the Mini Coupe, but that might be pushing things a bit (after taxes and fees, $14,000 could be too much.)

[deevergote]

*cough*practicality*cough* I'll just drop this here. Ignore the fact that my transmission just grenaded itself, it's a typical crap Honda automatic.


That's a 12" sub box under the tarp. I've also fit the car's own hood back there (laid flat), as well as a twin mattress (mattress folded to close the hatch, box spring hung out the back a bit, on separate trips). The rear seats fold almost perfectly flat, so this thing's like a little pickup truck when I need it to be.

That's one thing I DO like about the RSX... it's a hatchback without looking like one... at least not the traditional Fit/Yaris/Golf/Focus hatchback style.

[owequitit]

Today's Minis are downright porky, so the Si would probably be comparable. The 1st gen that she had was a little shy of 2600lbs, I believe (still heavy for something called a Mini... but whatever...)

That's very true about the lease, and the repair bills. Lina's mentality is that if we buy it cheap, then money put into it to repair it will most likely end up costing less than buying a more expensive car (just a bit less convenient). I think I'd rather pay more up front and have something that isn't likely to break... with a warranty to cover anything that would be earth-shattering (like engine failure.)
I guess my issue with the lease is that we pay money to have the car each month, then when our term is up, we don't have a car in our possession to show for it. Granted, if we buy a car now for $12,000, put 10,000 miles a year on it, and sell it in 3 years for $7000, we've lost $5000 (and interest on whatever we finance). That's gambling on it being worth $7000 in 3 years.
If we lease a car for 3 years, we'd have to be paying less than $138/mo to be in the same position at the end of that period. I'm not sure how everything works exactly, so I don't know if that's feasible. And as far as I know, lease agreements often include money down, which is money that will never be seen again.

The Mini is officially totaled, but we're still waiting to hear how much we'll be getting for it.
I'm hoping to go out tonight and test drive a few cars. She's not terribly excited about the Fiesta, but it's a rational choice. We have a Ford dealership right down the street from us, halfway between our house and her work, which would make it VERY convenient in terms of service and repair. She found a manual Fiesta SE sedan (bleh) with 4,000 miles (unless it's a typo...) for $11,000. If that's legit, that's practically a new car. Not the SFE, unfortunately, but the mileage, if accurate, makes it worth a look.

The Civic Si will be a consideration. Hyundai Veloster as well. I still like the Mini Coupe, but that might be pushing things a bit (after taxes and fees, $14,000 could be too much.)

I would be happy to explain the intricacies of leasing, but ultimately, you are paying either way.

That money down isn't money "you will never see again" it covers things like title and licensing and usually the first month's payment. Those are things you would still have to fork money over for a purchased car.

The other difference between lease and buy is that with a lease, you pay tax every month on the lease value, but not the total value of the car. With a traditional purchase, you pay tax on the entire purchase price of the car. That can make a substantial difference in total cost as well.

The only real difference between a lease and a buy though is the amount you are financing to use the car. Like I said, with a conventional loan you are borrowing the car until it is paid off. By the time you are done paying off the loan, you will have paid thousands more than what the car is worth anyway, so you won't really having anything to show for it, even though you have a car.

It isn't a bad idea unless you drive a lot or want the car forever.

The reason most people have a bad taste about leasing is because they don't understand it or how it is calculated, so it makes it a LOT easier for the dealer to roll stuff in there to increase their profit while lying about how much you paid.

However, I can give you a site that for a $20 lifetime subscription, they will tell you everything there is to know about leasing. They will show the lease values, which cars hold their value and are good to lease (they grade them A-F). They talk about how to calculate it, what all the terms mean, and how to use it. They give you all the questions to ask, etc. Also, contrary to popular belief, they can be calculated to the penny, so you can verify that nothing has been rolled in twice, or added in on the back side.

I would be more than happy to help if you want to at least look into it.

As for the repair thing, it makes sense only if the repairs are far and few between and are not super expensive. On a car like a BMW, the cost of repairs can quickly exceed the cost of the extra payment. Honestly, even on a Honda that can happen. I talked a buddy of mine into a TL 6MT because he was traditionally the cheap up front, expensive on the back end guy. We had done timing belts, struts, clutches, etc on his Civic and he had spent thousands that wouldn't have been an issue had he spent a little more up front. When he bought the TL, he didn't like the payment, but he quickly adjusted and is now glad he did. Since it was in good condition when he bought it, it was a lot easier to keep it there.

[deevergote]

That's true.

Honestly, the more I look at the Fiesta SFE, the more it intrigues me. A new one is slightly out of our price range, though I am a bit curious about a lease. Perhaps we could lease using the Fit as the down payment, and just sock the insurance payout away to be used to make the lease payments each month... if that's a possibility.

[owequitit]

That's true.

Honestly, the more I look at the Fiesta SFE, the more it intrigues me. A new one is slightly out of our price range, though I am a bit curious about a lease. Perhaps we could lease using the Fit as the down payment, and just sock the insurance payout away to be used to make the lease payments each month... if that's a possibility.

That could be a possibility.

Do you have any aversion to the new Fit? That might also be worth looking at, since it is equivalent to the Fiesta SFE.

[deevergote]

Eh, if she really wants a Fit, I'd go for it... but I'm REALLY over the Fit, honestly. I hate that the 3rd gen is made in Mexico and Indonesia, rather than Japan (like the first two generations). That's an irrational reason to dislike it, though, since I'm sure the quality is no different.
After spending nearly 400,000 miles in my Fit, even the new one has very little appeal to me. But, as I said, if she really wants one, I have no genuine argument against it.

[MrTShoff]

Eh, if she really wants a Fit, I'd go for it... but I'm REALLY over the Fit, honestly. I hate that the 3rd gen is made in Mexico and Indonesia, rather than Japan (like the first two generations). That's an irrational reason to dislike it, though, since I'm sure the quality is no different.
After spending nearly 400,000 miles in my Fit, even the new one has very little appeal to me. But, as I said, if she really wants one, I have no genuine argument against it.

The new fit is pretty awesome as far as a cheap practical car goes. We have an ex manual and while its dreadfully slow you really dont feel it. Handles very nicely too. The seats fold completely flat so I could probably move most of what I own in one go with it. Seriously look at the space available in one on google when the seats are down. Its actually a really fun car and I know you like miatas so the comparasion im going to make here is its about 85% of the drivers car a miata is. Its just slightly number and needs stiffer springs, which on the flipside makes it more comfortable. Its also faster than a miata I believe though there both slow. I have nothing bad to say about it and I dont really know why where its made bothers you but I can assure you the quality of it and fit and finish is still better than the fiesta st a friend of mine owns and is very good considering the price.

[cp[mike]]

I would be happy to explain the intricacies of leasing, but ultimately, you are paying either way.

However, I can give you a site that for a $20 lifetime subscription, they will tell you everything there is to know about leasing. They will show the lease values, which cars hold their value and are good to lease (they grade them A-F). They talk about how to calculate it, what all the terms mean, and how to use it. They give you all the questions to ask, etc. Also, contrary to popular belief, they can be calculated to the penny, so you can verify that nothing has been rolled in twice, or added in on the back side.

I would be more than happy to help if you want to at least look into it.

curious what site that is? thanks

[gloryaccordy]

Yea I wanna check that site out too.

And yea the 8th gen Civic grows on you like a fungus. Even the R18 one is good. It's so so so so so much fun to beat on.

[deevergote]

We checked out a few dealerships tonight. Unfortunately it was an hour before they closed, so we didn't actually drive anything... but we looked around to see what was on the lot. The salesman at the Honda dealership said they had a grand total of TWO used cars with manual transmissions... one had paint that looked like it had been waxed with a Brillo pad, and we couldn't locate the other. They did have a new manual CR-Z, but that sucker was $24,000. No go on that one. We told the salesman to give us a call if anything comes in with a manual transmission, under 50,000 miles, and priced under $14,000. So basically, a Civic or Fit. The salesman said that a decent used Civic Si is likely to exceed our price limit, though I let him know we were interested in one.
The other dealerships in the complex didn't have anything particularly interesting. No other salespeople approached us, which doesn't make me want to go back (not that anyone would want to initiate a sale at 8:30... but still...) Hyundai's only interesting option is the Veloster, and they only had turbo models visible (and those are too pricey.) Toyota, Scion, and Nissan had absolutely nothing of interest. We wanted EVERYTHING in the Audi and BMW lots, of course. And I wanted most of the Cadillacs. A man can dream!

Tomorrow, we go to pick up the insurance check for the Mini. While we're in that area, we're going to check out Ford, Mazda, and maybe Subaru. The Fiesta is still a potential option, as is the Mazda3 (and MAYBE the Mazda2... oddly enough, I see the Fiesta as the better version of that... not sure if I have it backwards or not.) A used Miata isn't 100% out of the question, and since it's unlikely that I'll be getting my own Miata anytime soon after this debacle, the idea is appealing. It's low on practicality, but not a thoroughly unreasonable daily driver.
The Subaru Impreza is also a possibility... though it seems as if they've gotten SO big over the last few years! I don't know if it's just the styling that makes them look bulky, or if they've really gotten big... but I swear a new Impreza hatchback looks to be the size of my mom's old 05 Legacy Outback! I do wish the BRZ was in our price range. Even the FR-S would've been acceptable. They're JUST out of reach, though.