Boom! Just got this from Bisi

[CyborgGT]

Eh, I think it's a nice piece, and that the price wasn't bad. Nice pick-up. I still plan on getting one for my H after it's built. Should be a solid comparison against the header I have for it now, considering I'll have the intake and head work done to take advantage of Bisi's claimed design.

[Straight Success]

I'm looking forward to seeing the custom fab'ed pieces and the install.

[deevergote]

Eh, I think it's a nice piece, and that the price wasn't bad. Nice pick-up. I still plan on getting one for my H after it's built. Should be a solid comparison against the header I have for it now, considering I'll have the intake and head work done to take advantage of Bisi's claimed design.

Most tests of Bisi's H22 header have shown it to be quite inferior to pretty much everything else in a comparable price range. If you can find one cheap, go for it... but you'd be much better off finding an old SMSP, RMF, Mugen, or Feel's, from what I've read. Bisi's F22A header was the best you could get, but his H22A header supposedly left much to be desired.

[Straight Success]

Most tests of Bisi's H22 header have shown it to be quite inferior to pretty much everything else in a comparable price range. If you can find one cheap, go for it... but you'd be much better off finding an old SMSP, RMF, Mugen, or Feel's, from what I've read. Bisi's F22A header was the best you could get, but his H22A header supposedly left much to be desired.

Not to thread jack, but I'm interested in picking up a Feels header. However, aren't they more rare than the Bisi header?

[98vtec]

its basically a mugen header from what I have seen. which is ok, but not great by any means. more of a hey look what I have piece instead of a performance addition.

buying a Bisi h22 header pretty much means you are picking and choosing or just don't know any better. the ONLY h22 bisi header I have seen perform well is owned by HCAR Jorge. But it was actually an inhouse built header. not the foreign junk most people have.

[deevergote]

Feel's and Mugen H22A headers are identical, yes. Or at least so I've been told by reputable people that have owned both to compare.

As for rarity... I'm not so sure. Especially for the H22A. Bisi's stuff wasn't terribly in demand for the H22A, as he wasn't worshiped by the H22A crowd as he was by the F22A crowd. That, combined with the less-than-stellar testing and reviews of his H22A header, nobody really scrambled to get it. Therefore, due to a fairly low demand (and the fact that many of those headers are leaky crap...) Bisi's header may be "rare". The Feel's header was primarily aimed at the Japanese market, I believe. It may have been quite common... and I believe it was in production for a long time (especially if the Mugen header is indeed identical, and can therefore be considered to be the same thing.) BUT, since many of them may be older, they may no longer be in good condition... or they may have been scrapped long ago.

I'd consider any $1000+ header to be "rare" in this crowd especially, since the vast majority of people in the CB crowd have headers purchased for $50-$500.


Ultimately, rarity matters far less than effectiveness. Are you buying a part because it will result in your engine making more power? Or are you buying a part because you want to impress strangers at meets and shows for 30 seconds, before they move on to the next shiny thing?

[CyborgGT]

Most tests of Bisi's H22 header have shown it to be quite inferior to pretty much everything else in a comparable price range. If you can find one cheap, go for it... but you'd be much better off finding an old SMSP, RMF, Mugen, or Feel's, from what I've read. Bisi's F22A header was the best you could get, but his H22A header supposedly left much to be desired.

The problem is, while I've seen graphs with minimal gains, if any, I've also seen multiple H22 graphs that go against what you and many others are saying. There's so much BS surrounding this header and this company, arguing both ways, that I really just want to see for myself. My engine tuned on my Spoon header (which looks to be only on the level of a DC/Megan/etc) vs my engine tuned on a Bisi. Especially when most of the people don't seem to have personal experience and are just going off of what they read on the internet and who they felt like siding with... members that have 'been around for a while,' lol. This is the f*king internet, I wouldn't trust anyone near enough to 100%. Personally, I would think basing any argument off stock engines (especially with an otherwise stock exhaust system) is stupid, regardless of what the manufacturer claims. Just because you're flowing better on the exit doesn't mean you're magically going to start sucking 130% more air through the entire engine.

As for "picking and choosing parts," bottom line is that I prefer the old-fashioned way of trial and error to what I'm told over the internet by people I don't know with varying (and also-unknown-to-me) degrees of personal experience .

And for the love of all that is holy: anyone who thinks metal-on-metal slip joints are naturally going to perform a perfect seal is nuts. Maybe Bisi does have a particular knack for having pipes welded up crooked, but you can't argue that steel by itself makes for a good air-tight sealing material! No matter what brand of exhaust components I had, if they used slip joints I'd weld it up, or at the very least use that sealing putty that's designed for exhaust slip joints (it was invented for a reason, after all).

[deevergote]

My opinion is based on independent dyno comparison tests done by a member on honda-tech. Same engine, different headers... Mugen flowed the best, and Bisimoto was way down at the bottom of the list.

You make an interesting point about stock engines. Bisimoto sold his F22A header based on a near 27whp gain shown on an otherwise bone-stock F22A1 (which, as we know, the stock exhaust manifold is already quite restrictive... seeing as a simple swap to a simple tubular manifold for the F22A4 makes a 5hp difference.)

Do you really have a Spoon header? Isn't Spoon supposed to be some major high-end stuff?


Regardless... if I ever decide to put a header on my H22A, it will either be a Vibrant header (if they still have them available), an ESP header (if they ever come back), a used SMSP or RMF, or a DC Sports header with a 2.5" collector mod.

[CyborgGT]

My "Spoon" header isn't marked in any way, but I bought it from Ronald and based on the quality of his builds, I trust him that it's legit. As far as I've been able to find, this header (which is just the primaries; it bolts to the stock downpipe) is the only thing Spoon ever made specifically for the H22.




Polished myself, it wasn't in nearly good of shape when I received it.

[cp[mike]]

i don't think that's a bad price. and you are doing the proper solution - merge to a V-band and then a simple downpipe, and you are set! Worth it when you get the complicated piece already made at a discount... it was when you spend $1k or whatever for the whole setup when it becomes just not worth spending any extra on modifying to make it work right.

[Chrisnick]

Once again, this all just brings back up the point that each specific header design is going to work in a specific operating range for a specific engine comination. The Bisi header may work where another style may not, and vice versa. It's all dependent on the ENTIRE engine combination as a whole. Without measurements, there's no real way to determine where it will work best at with whatever engine combination. I'm sure it could work spectacularly if you design the rest of the engine around the header, which is totally asinine and backwards.

Start at the camshaft, work from there. All this talk of "this header is better than that one" is completely off base and like playing billiards with only cue balls. You're missing the whole point of the game.

[deevergote]

That's true. Though the tests were done on a near-stock engine (just as Bisi's own test of his F22A header was done.)

Still, you have a point. Parts designed with certain modifications in mind will function best with all of those modifications in play. So unless you have intimate knowledge of all the parts intended to go with various other high end parts, it really does come down to being a guessing game, doesn't it? The only other option is to send the engine off to the tuning house of choice and tell them to build it from the ground up (and for what that would cost, I think I'd just go buy a better car! )

[Accrdwgnguy]

Seems to me all he does is pump out beautiful show cars to boost his image and then taking shortcuts on the products for you and me. bad business if you ask me.

[DCB7]

All Motor

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=141539


The F is King
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=194051


No engine work
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...1&postcount=10

[203CB7TUNER]

lets see how it works for you

well at least if definetly looks nice but as for bisi eh no comment