Thanks I will be doing this as soon as I get a chance for safety reasons. BTW do u install circuit breakers on the starter cable also? Cus it is running all the way through the inside of the car also. My guess is no.
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Last edited by pike0825; 04-24-2012, 03:54 AM. -
Did you run 2 separate cables?Originally posted by pike0825 View Post
Car Safety / General Servicing Checks --------Basic suspension checks
My 5.7 LS1 Holden Ute
A "Finished" project car is never finished until its been sold.
If at first you don't succeed, Try again. Don't give up too easily, persistance pays off in the end.Comment
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"Actually the circuit breaker should be no bigger than the max wiring Amperage rating - Why would you want to exceed the wire rating?
That's just asking for trouble."
I can not agree with this statement above.
Rating of a circuit breaker or a fuse must be meet the requirment of equipment that fuse is supplying the power to. Rating must not be depended on the rating of wire it is used on.
You seem to be making this all so complicated for no reason.
I have been stating my reasoning all along but you are not getting it if you ask me.
I just don't like the idea of having a circuit protection in starting circuit. Doing so may get you stranded because of failure/popping/tripping of that equipment. And it may come when it is cold out side. For other secondry systems, such as up-graded sound system, I am all for the installation of protection.
Installation of starting solenoid as mentioned will meet both of having a circuit protection and avoiding the very same unit when it is not needed. And this installation of solenoid is not complicated at all. I didn't even needed to have a pen and paper to come up with this idea.
The Main battery line needs some form of Circuit protection on it if it travels through the interior of the car.
Please specify what amp circuit protection you suggest to have in starting circuit this relocated battery must be able to operate.
If you decide not to do that - That's fine, it's your choice.
I always has been, and it always will be.
Google "battery in trunk circuit breaker" or "battery relocation trunk circuit breaker" and you will find enough resource to make your own decision.
I just did that and found a post below. This post was very first and last one on that forum on this subject.
Battery relocation circuit breakers vs fuses discussion open.
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Some people have recommended to use circuit breakers instead of fuses. I had an electrical enginner warn me against circuit breakers. He said that at least I should use a fuse near the battery because fuses offer more safety than circuit breakers. I will explain in mu words what I understood he explained me. Circuit breakers work with load as a function of time somehow and they trip when they feel they had enough. Fuses will trip right away and therefore are safer. Moreover, circuit breakers need to cool before you can reset. A fuse you replace and go if there is no short circuit somewhere. A main fuse should be placed as near the battery as possible inside the trunk where the battery has been relocated. I have seen some pics here of several battery relocations where there is no fuse near the battery in the trunk. Beware.
Any comments welcomed.
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Last edited by lanceygto; 06-10-2011 at 10:59 AM.
This poster is giving warning about circuit protection not installed on some of installation he has seen. His electrical engineer was nice enough to warn him about the use of circuit breaker against fuse. But may have failed him to inform what size fuse shall be used.
The link below is a walk through I found. I just saw pictures, didn't read the content. I don't know what size circuit breaker used on this car. You may find it when you read it in detail.
http://dsm.fidke.com/articles/diy-re...lkthrough.aspxA&P-IAComment
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I think you need to re-read what I wrote.Originally posted by oyajicool View Post
For example your statement suggests that If you used speaker wire as the starter wire then you would put a 250A circuit breaker on it, knowing full well that the wire cannot handle that much current.
I said "Actually the circuit breaker should be no bigger than the max wiring Amperage rating"
Originally posted by oyajicool View Post
I have no need or desire to calculate the size circuit breaker/fuse required, That's for the OP to figure out.
Car Safety / General Servicing Checks --------Basic suspension checks
My 5.7 LS1 Holden Ute
A "Finished" project car is never finished until its been sold.
If at first you don't succeed, Try again. Don't give up too easily, persistance pays off in the end.Comment
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Yes I run a 4 gauge wire from starter to positive battery post and a 2 gaugeOriginally posted by evil_demon_01 View Post
Wire from fuse box to positive battery post.Comment
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Why?Originally posted by pike0825 View Post
And why did you run the 2 gauge to the fuse box and the 4 gauge to the starter rather than the other way around?
Car Safety / General Servicing Checks --------Basic suspension checks
My 5.7 LS1 Holden Ute
A "Finished" project car is never finished until its been sold.
If at first you don't succeed, Try again. Don't give up too easily, persistance pays off in the end.Comment
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I'm having trouble understanding exactly what it is that u mean/ suggesting which is why the circuit breaker idea seems easier and less complicated to do( I'm no professional) which is kinda why I lean more to that idea. I def. need to do more research to figure out your method of essentially "Originally posted by oyajicool View Post
Keeping it safe" Cus u really seem to know what your talking about. Do u have any of this done to YOUR car?Comment
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Cus that's we're I have to run cables from. My connections are: 2 gauge from alt to fuse box and 2 gauge from fuse box to positive battery post. 4 gauge from starter to positive post terminal of battery. I didn't know I needed more juice going to the starter. I thought the alternator was more important as far as power. I'll be changing that wire to 2 gauge then.Originally posted by evil_demon_01 View PostComment
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This is FAIL. Your not a lisenced electrician, don't talk out your ass.Originally posted by oyajicool View Post
Fuses aren't there for just gimmics: Even on properly installed wires, they are there for a "what if". What if hes rear ended and the wire grounds? Where is it close to? The gas tank? Idiot.
Fuses are failsafes that should NEVER EVER be overlooked. if you can't wire something up correctly then you have no business doing it at all.
Nothing is wrong with using a propane torch, its much better than using a soldering iron. Of course the insulation will melt. Thats WHY they make HEAT SHRINK. I just recently soldered my grounds with a torch made for sweating pipe. I melted just the tip of my ground insulation. I must have ruined the wire right?
Again your talking about things you donnot understand.Originally posted by oyajicool View Post
Think for a moment instead of trying to seem smart. Whats the MAIN fuse in the engine bay? This is the fuse that would fuse EVERY electrical connection in the car. This fune FAR surpasses the needs of a wimpy starter motor. Just because the battery is capable of producing 900 cold cranking amps, doesn't mean you need wires or fuses based on what its able to supply.
You need fuses based on wire size and electrical devices(though these days quality devices come fused).
What was the stock wire size? Thats what you need, thats all you need from the fuse box to the starter. Don't fix whats not broken.Originally posted by pike0825 View Post
The only thing you needed to do was run an extra large power wire from the fuse box to the trunk where your battery is, and properly ground the battery in the trunk with an upgauged wire. Electricity has no idea where the wire is or how big it is, it doesn't care. The reason you upgauge the wire from the fuse box to the battery(trunk) is because wire does contain resistance, and larger wires have less resistance per foot. This helps the battery have less voltage drop when starting the car. Once the car is started it wont matter, all the system runs on is the alternator, which is in the front of the car and will proviode adequate voltage up there. If you upgauged the wire and made your own connection SOLDER IT! Your crimping isn't as good as a factorys, and soldering a connection is better anyways. It's the right thing to do.
LMAO I also love the fact that we have a grammar nazi that corrected my "your" to "you are". I typed on my computer for that post and forgot that it doesn't auto-correct like my phone does. I give a crap about grammer next to advising someone to wire a battery up without a fuse so when he gets into an accident or the insulation happens to be breached and the wire grounds, his car burs down.Last edited by MortsAccord; 04-24-2012, 06:16 PM.Comment
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Ok I will be changing the starter wire to a 2 gauge. Maybe I'll consider soldering all my connection to my terminals and getting rid of my vise gripped crimped terminal connections( all my connection are like this) and I have a 0 gauge ground in the trunk( I use one of the rear strut tower bolts for ground). I'll probly consider going back and soldering my connections after i put in a fuse on my power wire. Do u fuse the starter wire also? ( don't believe anyone has answered that yet) thanks a lot for the input ppl( even tho some are totally contrary than others)Originally posted by MortsAccord View PostThis is FAIL. Your not a lisenced electrician, don't talk out your ass.
Fuses aren't there for just gimmics: Even on properly installed wires, they are there for a "what if". What if hes rear ended and the wire grounds? Where is it close to? The gas tank? Idiot.
Fuses are failsafes that should NEVER EVER be overlooked. if you can't wire something up correctly then you have no business doing it at all.
Nothing is wrong with using a propane torch, its much better than using a soldering iron. Of course the insulation will melt. Thats WHY they make HEAT SHRINK. I just recently soldered my grounds with a torch made for sweating pipe. I melted just the tip of my ground insulation. I must have ruined the wire right?
Again your talking about things you donnot understand.
Think for a moment instead of trying to seem smart. Whats the MAIN fuse in the engine bay? This is the fuse that would fuse EVERY electrical connection in the car. This fune FAR surpasses the needs of a wimpy starter motor. Just because the battery is capable of producing 900 cold cranking amps, doesn't mean you need wires or fuses based on what its able to supply.
You need fuses based on wire size and electrical devices(though these days quality devices come fused).
What was the stock wire size? Thats what you need, thats all you need from the fuse box to the starter. Don't fix whats not broken.
The only thing you needed to do was run an extra large power wire from the fuse box to the trunk where your battery is, and properly ground the battery in the trunk with an upgauged wire. Electricity has no idea where the wire is or how big it is, it doesn't care. The reason you upgauge the wire from the fuse box to the battery(trunk) is because wire does contain resistance, and larger wires have less resistance per foot. This helps the battery have less voltage drop when starting the car. Once the car is started it wont matter, all the system runs on is the alternator, which is in the front of the car and will proviode adequate voltage up there. If you upgauged the wire and made your own connection SOLDER IT! Your crimping isn't as good as a factorys, and soldering a connection is better anyways. It's the right thing to do.
LMAO I also love the fact that we have a grammar nazi that corrected my "your" to "you are". I typed on my computer for that post and forgot that it doesn't auto-correct like my phone does. I give a crap about grammer next to advising someone to wire a battery up without a fuse so when he gets into an accident or the insulation happens to be breached and the wire grounds, his car burs down.Comment
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if you keep the starters power wire in the stock configuration it wont need any work at all.
The only thing that is modified is your battery right?
The wires that run from the batterys original location to the trunk is the only electrical change(aside from some positioning). All you did was move its location and increase its wire gauges to accomodate the new wire length.
All new connections should be soldered since you dont have industrial press machinery.
You didn't need to upgrade your alternator's wire, or any other wires. Only the one that runs from the fuse box to the rear + on the battery should be alien to the car.(and the ground wire in the trunk.)
The grounds up front that used to go to the battery should be attached to the frame of the car somewhere up front.
The negative(-)on the battery in the rear should be connected to the cars frame or some good solid metal spot.
Wires length should be kept to a minimum, without streching them that is. They should lay tucked without tension.Comment
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How can I keep the starters power wire in stock configuration when the battery is in the trunk and in stock configuration it's also connected to the battery.Originally posted by MortsAccord View PostComment
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No, I am not a certified electrician.
But I am an FAA Certified Airframe and Power Plant mechanic since 1982 with Inspection Authorization rating since 2005 if my credential is in question. This is what I am.
Click on the link below and go to page 114.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...2043.13-2B.pdf
All I am trying to tell you is to duplicate this except addition of a circuit protection bridge the two terminals on "Battery Relay". And make wiring for "battery relay" to be activated only when manually turned on or link it with ignition switch in start position. The capacity of this circuit protection shall be the same as #15 fuse, 80A. Having this set up will give you proper protection in case of accident and breach of insulation of this cable. Also worry free operation of starter motor when cold out side.
You need only one cable from battery positive to engine bay. This one cable shall be tied with existing battery cable inside a protected junction box. You can connect existing ground cable to chassis. And you could leave all other wirings as they were.
Rating(size) of wire depends of equipment(s) you need to run with.
Rating(capacity) of circuit protection depends on equipment(s) you need to run on.
When you are installing a new equipment, you must know how much current it draws(amp) and how far the equipment is from the power source. Also, have to know if it is for continuous operation or intermittent operation.
Then, go to wire chart and pick correct wire size for this equipment and pick a circuit protection for rated amp.
Don't pick a circuit protection based on the wire size as pointed out. You could be picking up over rated protection or under rated protection.
Now, I have tried to clear things up as best as I could. Hope you'll get it.
Vise grip is for gripping something, not for crimping terminals. If you don't have proper tools to crimp, soldering is alternative.
Initially, I said the direct connection is OK if the cable is protected sufficiently, but later I changed my mind. I came up with suggestion of having a circuit protection with a shunt so the car will have capability to start the engine if that protection blows/trip.
From factory, there is no circuit protection installed on main power supply to the starter motor, likely to maintain capability to cold crank.
Alternator maximum out put is 80 amp, correct me if I am wrong. There is no need to beef up the out put cable unless you have higher out-put alternator.Last edited by oyajicool; 04-25-2012, 12:19 PM.A&P-IAComment
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About fuses.
http://bcae1.com/fuses.htm
Or
http://bcae1.com/ and click on fuses in the right hand avatar window. This will essentially explain everything.
Any wire must be fused by a fuse no greater than the wires current capacity. This protects the wire from overheating, in case it shorts out.
A fuse doesn't restrict power and I bet that the starters power wire is fused somewhere.
Read the entire page there and you'll get all the information you'll ever need. This guys website is extremely well written, probably the best online resource i've ever seen- aside from grapeaperacing.com(which is gone now- never mind just checkd it and its back fuckin-A) which had awesome technical docs. Check that site out- mad awesome.Comment
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A fuse doesn't restrict power and I bet that the starters power wire is fused somewhere.
There is no betting here. Go to your own car and follow the starter power wire. Haynes wiring diagram (12-16) for the car shows a line linking battery positive post and starter motor. There is no fuse shown.
Why Honda's design does not include a circuit protection on this cable? Why FAA along with NTSB does not mandate the installation of a circuit protection for battery out put other than a solenoid which must be operated manually despite of location of that battery?
Cables used for starter motor has such large cross sectional area which is needed to carry high amp to meet the demand of starter motor trying to start the engine. If the insulation is breached and shorted in an accident on a car or an aircraft with not protection in that circuit, that cross sectional area where shorting will be much smaller than that of the cable. It is likely the most of cable body will remain relatively cool and breached area will be very hot. Possibly the moment the cable shorts out, the cable or the ground will be melted down and there will be an open circuit.
For my recommendation/suggestion, please read my previous posts for extra safety and ease of operation.A&P-IAComment
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