H22 vs H23

[Shadow1]

i know i dont see very many boosted H22s. if they are then they're on the track a the local drag strip. not used for daily driving.

im with Deev tho. id stick with the F22. i have a F22a1(god i want an a6 so bad. lmao) but i plan on building that up. with just a few bolts ons f22s can beat an '99 civic Si. and with a 50hp shot of nitrous beat a Intgera Type R. putting in a H22 would just be a hasle b/c 1st you gotta find someone to do it if you dont know how. 2)you gotta have the money for it. with the money you spend on getting an H22 or H23 you could have buildt up your F series and made it faster and spent less money.

there are plenty of people up here who are boosted on a stock f22 motor. and seeing good numbers too. but it all comes down to what YOU want.

you want a weekend track terror build up a H22. buit if you want something synister you can use on the street, f22 and h23 are your friends. just my .02

[turbomaxx]

oh ok deev. so i guess il get a H22 instead. i just want a vtec motor, and once i get it, all id change is cold air intake or short ram, and some nice headers. maybe some new cams i unno. but thanks u helped alot

[deevergote]

If you'll be happy with the H22 in somewhat-stock form, then it's a great motor. I've had mine since 2003, and I still love it. It's just now starting to give me some problems (over 100,000 miles on it now, I believe). The problems I'm experiencing may be due to some damage I did myself, definitely not a flaw of the motor itself.

With expensive bolt-ons, good cams, and quality tuning, the H22 can put down 200 or so to the wheels (175 is about what you get stock). Turbo requires a build to be safe, and that gets VERY pricey.

Honestly, VTEC is fairly over-rated. It's amazing technology, but when you properly set up an H22, you shouldn't even feel the change.

[owequitit]

but 10.6 isnt that high really.

The USDM is 10.0:1.

And it is still fairly high for boost, especially when you take into consideration the weakness of Honda's cast peices. Things like the ring landings etc.

When you add the additional stresses of 8,000RPM on top of the boost stresses, you typically get an explosive combination.

You could tune them an probably be OK on very low boost levels, but you really are walking a tightrope, and why bother with low boost when an NA build could result in the same power, and be much more reliable?

[owequitit]

Mahle makes some of the best forged pistons on the market, and they just so happen to make forged aluminum pistons that work perfectly well with stock FRM H series sleeves.

They are available from 8:1 all the way up to 12:1 I believe.

Also, I don't think the FRM sleeves are as durable underboost as the ductile iron sleeves, but they will still handle quite a bit of power.

As far as VTEC goes, most people think it is this magical device that creates more power.

That is completely false.

All VTEC does is reduce the compromise between a mildly built street engine and a fully built race engine.

With a street engine we have to pass emmissions, idle nicely, have decent low end torque, good throttle response etc. When we choose a street cam, we lose high RPM power.

In a fully built race engine, we want maximum power at high RPM's. When we choose a race cam, we lose bottom end, and emmissions, and idle quality, and low RPM flexibility.

Traditionally, with one camshaft, we had to chose 1 or the other, or some point in between, there was no other choice.

That is why built muscle cars are lopey and loud etc. They have a big cam, which means they don't do as well at lower RPMs.

VTEC allowed us to fit a good street cam in with a good "race" cam, without having the disadvantages of either.

At low RPM, we have a nice street cam, then at some RPM we switch over to our high RPM cam, which allows us to make more power up top.

Like Deev said, ideally, you wouldn't "feel" the transition, because there is a point where the powerband of both cams is exactly the same. If it was setup this way, you might hear a slight change in tone, but you would just feel a steadily increasing pull from idle to redline.

Honda wanted to make sure people knew what they were paying extra for, so they delayed the transition to the high RPM cam a few hundred RPM, so that when it finally switched over, you would feel a definite increase in pull.

H series aren't inherently bad for boost, but they require a little more consideration and a slightly different approach than a low compression, forged slug, iron sleeve engine.

You are working with much finer limitations which require a finer degree of accuracy.

[turbomaxx]

i understand vtec. ive felt it before too, and i dont expect to make me faster than everyone, or that im going to feel it hit every time.

from my experiences, it just sounds cool, and where most motors would be accelerating slower and slower losing there powerband, vtec keeps the motor accelerating at the same rate a little longer if that makes sense how i explained it

[91accord1]

My Friends uncle has a 95 Lude with a boosted h22, but hes only pushin like 7or8 pounds. But that thing is FAST! Takes modded Tsi's like they where nothing!

[owequitit]

i understand vtec. ive felt it before too, and i dont expect to make me faster than everyone, or that im going to feel it hit every time.

from my experiences, it just sounds cool, and where most motors would be accelerating slower and slower losing there powerband, vtec keeps the motor accelerating at the same rate a little longer if that makes sense how i explained it

Yes that made sense, and yes, that is pretty much exactly what VTEC does. It allows the engine to keep pulling to revs that an engine with a conventional street cam can't pull too.

Personally, I like VTEC for the same reasons, and honestly, it will make your car more than fast enough to break the law.

[arthaccord]

There are no JDM H23s, so finding one that isn't beaten to shit by US drivers is difficult. The F22B DOHC is pretty much what the Japanese had instead.

H23 is the Prelude Si motor. It's non-VTEC, and makes 160hp. A nice upgrade, but I wouldn't look for one, myself. USDM motors are hard to find in good shape. F22B DOHC for boost, H22 for NA (H22s are GREAT motors, but expensive to take beyond about 200whp). The stock F22A is actually a fantastic motor... very underappricated by most CB7 tuners!

i agree most people thank there just a crapy old mototr but there cheap and eazy to up grade you could build one for good power for uder $1000 sounds goos compared to a h22

[blizzard335]

guys, here's an article about the H-series engine..

H-series article..

the H23 DOHC VTEC wasnt bored out, it was stroked.. sorry bout the confusion..

[d112crzy]

Yes that made sense, and yes, that is pretty much exactly what VTEC does. It allows the engine to keep pulling to revs that an engine with a conventional street cam can't pull too.

Personally, I like VTEC for the same reasons, and honestly, it will make your car more than fast enough to break the law.

my aunts geo can break the law too

[AccordWarrior]

My research on the H23 shows they take extremely well to I/H/E. (I believe there was an article on H-T where someone gained 19 whp with that setup over a stock motor).

The interesting thing about the H23 is the power/torque curve when compared to the H22. The H23 makes it's peak HP and TQ at about 1000 rpm less than the H22. The torque difference is ~2 lb-ft (ft-lbs?...it's been a long night of studying), and it's available sooner. For most of your around town driving, the H23 may feel peppier.

Of course the H22 will be faster with the same level of tuning/care as the H23, but still, the cost difference is something to weigh.

My personal view on this is:

If you are saving up to do a motor swap, and have plans to work on the motor after you swap, the H22 is probably the better of the two ways to go. However, if you need a motor right now because your F22 let go, it seems foolish not to spend a little more money for the power and tunability of the DOHC motor.

[turbomaxx]

well its not dead yet but my transmission is on its way out in an ugly way. at first i just thought id fd my clutch up, but i threw a new clutch in and guess what, still fd up. it sounds like theres gravel in my trans, and it keeps popping out of 3rd...


i know i could get a new trans, but i plan to swap SOMETHING into it anyways, and id really hate to spend a couple hundred bucks on a oem trans when im just gonna yank it out in a month or so for a new motor and trans...


None of the above would matter if my parents would let me get a damn job lol.

[cb7-R]

Honestly, VTEC is fairly over-rated. It's amazing technology, but when you properly set up an H22, you shouldn't even feel the change.

I wouldnt say its over rated at all. In fact it does exactly what it was meant to do, allow an engine to posses decent power and torque while being emmisions freindly and still provide that great 4 cylinder gas milage. What it is is misunderstood. people think its purpose is to make the car more powerful but thats not the case at all...