proof the infamous g22 frank.

[92smokeaccord]

ok so as some of you know i have built and failed 4 g22 type engines.h22 head f22a block.they were both stock and tuned minus bolt ons.i was digging threw some pics i had from a while ago because i took pics upon rebuild after rebuild.now this was befor i had a child and was working so money was not a issue.these builds were done strictly upon the hype that they were fast ans reliable.now in my last white primer coupe befor the crash it was full h22 with ebay turbo kit and street tuned.i never had a problem with it till after the crash and i got rid of turbo for a lil while.eventually the block spun a rod so i opted for a quick solution cause at the time it was hard to find h22 engines.not that i did not have the money for them just could not find one.so i built one g22 and i must say it ran like achamp with no issues for about 6 months after a 145wph tune. 6500 prm redline thankfully the tuner i used knew what he was doing becuse he said he could give me a higher red line but the block wont handel it.these is the picture of one of 4 of my g22 builds that all ended up like this.all stock parts nothing serious done to any of them.just stock block aftermarket water pump and bolts sheared off in the oil passages.the rest was a resurfaced h22 head and stock accord honda headgasket with arp studs.never leaked oil or anything.
the heat melted the wall then the outer diameter if the piston.




i am not saying that they should not be done but that they need to be almost completely rebuilt to match the bores.

[92smokeaccord]

also NOTE;i do NOT wish to start a war! just showing facts of what will happen eventually to a stock for stock cheap g22.also any moderator,please feel free to rewrite this for easier to read.i know my skills are not great but i try.thanks

[reklipz]

I think ensuring that we're talking about stock setups here is definitely an imperative for the sake of understanding. I'm glad you noted that in your post, .

I don't know much about the "g22 frank" except that it uses an F22 (F22A?) block and an H22 (H22A?) head. From that notion, assuming that the cylinders don't need to be bored to match the head (which follows from the stock/stock precondition), I don't understand why this design fails. With that assumption, is it simply that the (stock) H22 top on the (stock) F22 bottom creates excess heat which causes this failure? If so, did you exhaust your options for changing oils to help remove that excess heat? (Thanks BITOG !)

Thanks for the thread!

[92smokeaccord]

I think ensuring that we're talking about stock setups here is definitely an imperative for the sake of understanding. I'm glad you noted that in your post, .

I don't know much about the "g22 frank" except that it uses an F22 (F22A?) block and an H22 (H22A?) head. From that notion, assuming that the cylinders don't need to be bored to match the head (which follows from the stock/stock precondition), I don't understand why this design fails. With that assumption, is it simply that the (stock) H22 top on the (stock) F22 bottom creates excess heat which causes this failure? If so, did you exhaust your options for changing oils to help remove that excess heat? (Thanks BITOG !)

Thanks for the thread!

im sorry let me clear some of this up.by heat i mean the detonation the chamber creates during the stroke.so during the combustion the air pulled in to the chamber and mixed with gas is heated and then ignited and pushed all around the chamber even between the 2mm gap from the uneven bore.the heat from said state ment in my cause and many otheres melted the wall and piston.. hope that helps.

[Accrdwgnguy]

145whp? Why do people do this swap again?

[reklipz]

im sorry let me clear some of this up.by heat i mean the detonation the chamber creates during the stroke.so during the combustion the air pulled in to the chamber and mixed with gas is heated and then ignited and pushed all around the chamber even between the 2mm gap from the uneven bore.the heat from said state ment in my cause and many otheres melted the wall and piston.. hope that helps.

Ah, gotcha. So the H22A head is just a poor match for the F22A block, causing detonation.

145whp? Why do people do this swap again?

Necessity? Fun? To bother folks you like you? I kid, I kid.

[92smokeaccord]

145whp? Why do people do this swap again?

And that was with credible bolt ons.i/h/e.......

[Accrdwgnguy]

And that was with credible bolt ons.i/h/e.......

I'm probably hitting that mark with H23IM, i/h/e and a cam in my stock F22A. Much less invested then a head swap..

[reklipz]

How could one correct this difference in diameter? Would welding in excess material and then milling it back down be suitable? Doing that doesn't seem terribly difficult if you have access to proper welding equipment and a mill. The only complication I can think is making sure the valve seats aren't obstructed, and there may be potential for warping (though I have little experience with welding aluminum). Boring the F22A block would fix this as well, but then we're no longer stock, and the structural integrity of the block is probably too compromised for +2mm. Thoughts?

--

I feel great; apparently I'm not the first to have thought of this!

[Joey GT-R]

The block must be SLEEVED. People don't understand that this is what happens when you run this setup. Had he still been turbo the piston would have melted further most likely.

[wildBill83]

Jarrett covers this pretty well here:
Read this before asking about doing a Frankenstein build!

[PR CB7]

http://s657.beta.photobucket.com/use...127ef.mp4.html

sorry for the quality of the video, since it was taken by my phone

its not worth it, they said
it can't see 8k rpms, they said
its a waste of time, they said
it wont last more than 10k miles, they said
it wont be the same as a h22, they said
it can't run on 87oct, they said

although the video cant provide much info, you can see where the shift light is set at (8000) and when the engine was built and installed the car had 170k (184k) currently

the last tune, the car received, it has made 180whp, this was in march, and it got tuned again
i drive this car hard every day, im on the road by 7am and there's nothing else to do

[PR CB7]

This is the perfect example when something is done by someone that really knows his shit

Dont get me wrong i've blown 2 in 4 years of building them, but i learned from them a lot from them

Dont take this the wrong way, you had proof, but so did I

I suggest you change tuners, you get a better bottom end, and that you learn how effective math can be when used properly

i got nothing but substantial proof in this subject, everything except a dyno sheet, which will come soon
take care guys

[GhostAccord]

That melted piston looks very similar to what happens with an ignition timing/detonation tuning issue....

What side of the piston is that melted area on, the exhaust or intake?

[PR CB7]

I can agree with ghost, that looked like a timing error
i can guarantee you if you build another one and change tuners the story will be different

Not everyone with a wideband and an ostrich can call themselves tuners, this engines timing charts are completly different than a h22