Its amazing how few new Japanese performance cars

[1990accordex-r]

holy shit the Avalon is still in production? i thought they canceled that crap YEARS ago.

Exactly what I said... I saw a newer model one just the other day, 1st one I've ever seen.

and if a dedicated platform is a trait of a sports car, would a Prelude be considered one?

[deevergote]

I know it's from deutchland but the gti's are awesome little sports cars with all around performance. The new golf R's are going to be the cat's meow.

The GTi isn't a sports car. It's a mildly souped up version of VW's basic people-hauler hatchback. The R is a bit sportier, but still not a sports car.

VW doesn't have a real sports car. Audi has two... the TT and the R8. And yes, the TT is another one that I'd consider to be an actual sports car, even though it's FWD (in some instances), and shares a platform with the Beetle.
Then of course, they now own Porsche, which is all sports cars minus the Panamera and Cayenne.

[deevergote]

Exactly what I said... I saw a newer model one just the other day, 1st one I've ever seen.

and if a dedicated platform is a trait of a sports car, would a Prelude be considered one?

The Prelude is a funny one, IMO. It's more of a sporty coupe (pretty much discontinued because the Accord V6 coupe and Civic Si made it obsolete.) I'd put the Prelude along the same lines as the Celica, Eclipse, etc... (even though those two share many more components with other less-sporty cars than the Prelude does with the somewhat-related Accord.)

I wouldn't call the Prelude a true sports car, but it's about as close as you can get without crossing that line.


Granted, this is all my opinion, not fact... but it's what I've gleaned from the general market as well.

[toycar]

theres alot of hate in this thread.......





My opinion;



Evo was a better car before it became popular. Anything newer then an EVO 8 was held back from the factory. Just reflashing the tune gave power gains. That was nothing that an older evo would've gained from. Now it comes "ready to mod" rather then "tuned to kill" straight from the factory, probably so you pay Mitsu to make your evo faster. Fuck, EVO's dont even rock a 4g63 motor anymore....


Nissan=over-rated

I dig their cars, but I really dont see any reason why anyone thinks that nissan is the bee's knee's, not at all. Nothing in their line up is all that sexy/sporty right now. I dont really even think the 370 is all that nice. I enjoy what they are trying to do for "performance families", but I really could care less about how fast my wifes grocery getter goes, let alone racing an Altima just because its turbocharged. Thats just ricer. May as well race a Volvo.

New skyline=ultimate over hyped POS shitbox. Launch control = dead tranny on arrival. Adjustable tunes=people pushing buttons way to fucking much. Car is just a bit much for a novice to handle. Neat idea's, cool technology- but overpriced and lacking in the performance dpt as far as Im concerned for the pricetag. Terminator mustang with a 2.3 whipple and pulley kit destroyed a brand new off the lot GTR. Terminator stang was 23k with 19k miles. Less then 6k in mods, so for under 30 grand my buddy joey walked all over a GTR. Basically embarrassed the guy that bought a "super car", lol


SRT-4, Bwahahahahahaha, fail.

The weak "turbofold" design of the turbo and manifold, the lack of tuning support, the lack of aftermarket support, the idea that the motor is ripping off the 2.4L 4g64 with half the R&D, weaker rotational assembly, balance shaft "chain" that doesnt balance anything(chain doesnt flex, therefore cannot counter balance rotation of crank/rods) the fact that its a neon(need I say more)Also, the SRT-4 carries a damn near identical drivetrain as the PT cruiser turbo. I just couldnt handle that. Thats like having a turbo cavalier. Sure, theres some out there. Some of them are fast. BUT, ITS A FREAKING CAVALIER!! COME ON MAN IF IT WERE THE 70'S WOULD YOU BE ROCKING A PINTO WITH A 350? WTF?

Cobalt Turbo, not bad for a domestic car. They invested more in the fuel system then they did the interrior though. And, the car is not reliable at all and may as well have had an interrior made from recycled soda cans. GM is trying to squeeze their way into the tuner world with this car, and it is weak sauce in stock form. Moddable, sure. However, just like the evo it comes ready to mod out of the box, and dialed back a bit to make you want to mod it.

Plus, its still a cavalier, lol.

As far as this debate about vtec, well you guys are just silly.

Vtec on an f20c is all about performance and though it would not replace a turbo it definetely yields cam profile(s) that would not be streetable without that fancy hydraulic solenoid, thus creating performance in a fashion that turbo's alone cannot. Vtec opens the door to more boost, more performance, more flow etc...

Vtec on an f22b1, is all about fuel economy.


To say "vtec" is for any one thing is rediculous. Vtec is a technology, what you use it for is up to you. Just about every major car company now offers some sort of "vtec." Nowadays its all about fuel economy rather then "bang for your displacement" though, so what do you guys expect? Same shit happened in the late 70's and 80's(most of you are prolly to young to remember) setting the stage for the performance era of the 90's-early 2000's that the consumer basically demanded.

[Xsjado]

the gtr was that certainly a 2011 model not a 2010
theres a big differnce in speed.

as for japanese cars buy an lfa if you can afford it.

I want an r3 rx8. I"m glad theres something brand new on the market I want.

[toycar]

the gtr was that certainly a 2011 model not a 2010
theres a big differnce in speed.

as for japanese cars buy an lfa if you can afford it.

I want an r3 rx8. I"m glad theres something brand new on the market I want.

It was a 2010

Either way, I can think of better ways to drop a hundred grand.

R3 on the other hand, is sex on wheels as far as I'm concerned

[rexload]

New skyline=ultimate over hyped POS shitbox. Launch control = dead tranny on arrival. Adjustable tunes=people pushing buttons way to fucking much. Car is just a bit much for a novice to handle. Neat idea's, cool technology- but overpriced and lacking in the performance dpt as far as Im concerned for the pricetag. Terminator mustang with a 2.3 whipple and pulley kit destroyed a brand new off the lot GTR. Terminator stang was 23k with 19k miles. Less then 6k in mods, so for under 30 grand my buddy joey walked all over a GTR. Basically embarrassed the guy that bought a "super car", lol

But with this kind of logic any sports car is waaay overpriced... because you can just find a Civic shell for $200, throw $20,000 at it and have 1000hp... and then laugh at everyone who paid more than 20K for their car including ferraris and bugattis

[ChIoVnIdCa]

New skyline=ultimate over hyped POS shitbox.

First off... There is no new "skyline"

Second... I wont comment more on what you posted... Ill leave that to someone who likes to type ... Plenty of them in this thread

[deevergote]

The R35 GT-R is not a Skyline.
There is a Skyline, though... we call it the G (37 and 25).

toycar, for a post that starts out mentioning the amount of hate in this thread, you sure followed up with a scathing post tearing into quite a few of the popular sporty cars on the market. Most of which aren't pure sports cars at all... which is what all of my posts above are saying. Those souped up versions of lesser, tamer vehicles are basically just tuner cars from the factory. Capable, yes (and no matter how much you bash those cars... ALL of those "crappy" models have a few examples rolling around that are undeniably impressive in terms of performance... you can't deny that.)
As for factory upgrades to the cars that were held back... that's just good business. I mean, a 280-300hp Evo is no slouch right out of the box. BUT, if someone wants a bit more, they can get parts from Mitsubishi to upgrade it (and retain their warranty.) You get a good car, with the option to make it better.


The RX-8 is indeed one of the few remaining Japanese sports cars... sadly, it's done after this year. I REALLY hope Mazda has a replacement planned for it, but I think they're shelving their rotary indefinitely. Rotaries are just so impractical (and I still can't understand why they insisted upon using a naturally aspirated one in the RX-8, after two very successful turbo RX-7 predecessors...) They're fuel hogs, they lack low-end torque, and the owner must understand that it's very different in comparison to common piston engines (they must also know a mechanic that understands them, if they don't do their own work.) It's an engine ideal for a true sports car... but there aren't enough dedicated sports car enthusiasts to make the demand high enough to justify continued production.

[LinX]

The GTi isn't a sports car. It's a mildly souped up version of VW's basic people-hauler hatchback. The R is a bit sportier, but still not a sports car.

VW doesn't have a real sports car. Audi has two... the TT and the R8. And yes, the TT is another one that I'd consider to be an actual sports car, even though it's FWD (in some instances), and shares a platform with the Beetle.
Then of course, they now own Porsche, which is all sports cars minus the Panamera and Cayenne.

Disagree with how you classify a sports car. Your opinion however.

[quickangel93]

Honda got their results from the new civic and the market dropped on them. time to go back to the drawing board. if honda could really get their heads out of their butts and come out with a attractive civic with a turbo, their market would sky rocket.

[quickangel93]

Theres a ton of new sports/performace cars.

BMW - M3, 1 series
Audi - S5 or A5, A3
VW - Golf TDI
Porsche - 996? and Boxter
Nissan - GTR, 370z
Infiniti - G35
Hyundai - Genisis
Honda - Civic SI
Acura - NSX (if honda makes it)
Lexus - LFA, SC350
Scion - TC
Mazda - Mazdaspeed 3 Turbo

Those are just the few imports

[toycar]

toycar, for a post that starts out mentioning the amount of hate in this thread, you sure followed up with a scathing post tearing into quite a few of the popular sporty cars on the market. Most of which aren't pure sports cars at all... which is what all of my posts above are saying..

I suppose your right, I re-read and it does come across a bit negative. I was more talking about the hate going back and forth between members then the hate on the car companies.

no matter how much you bash those cars... ALL of those "crappy" models have a few examples rolling around that are undeniably impressive in terms of performance.

Couldn't agree more.

Thats also why I bashed though. I believe that the "Market" has a better idea-at least in terms of performance- of what a car enthusiast wants in a car. I imagine people that bought Si's off the lot, for atleast a decade now have dreamed that they came turbo like other cars in their class or atleast had an option for it. Other companies, such as Dodge tried to get on board with people modding their neons, hence the SRT-4 and the stage 1,2 and 3 upgrades.

Same deal as the cobalt turbo.

Granted, the aftermarket is there to get people where they want to be, but you'd think that the people claiming to be the "best" would understand and offer some better "stage x" upgrades from the factory.

And I also feel like if they are going to "create" the market for themselves, they should "take" the market themselves. Be the best, strive on quality, make people want your product. Dont jew them on their 35 thousand dollar purchase, that just lost 20-30% in value the second they drove it home.

Look at Bisi. He's forcing his way into a nitch, that he created on being the best. He has his issues just like any company in the market but thats just business.

If Dodge came out with an SRT-4 package, 40k, 5 link suspension, quality adjustable coilover system, direct fuel injection, brembo brake kit, something like a holset hx series turbo with a quality manifold, a tunable ecu and a designer interrior and they would draw the enthusiasts.


Everything I suggested can be found on different OEM vehicles-so I guess I dont understand why they hold back so much when considering a "performance" package. Its not like the people that engineer these cars that work at Mopar arent smart enough to figure this shit out. I do not believe that cost doesnt come to play when considering things like design, quality control etc.

So, charging me 30-40k for a car it better be nice as a MOFO and built with quality shit, and usually its just not.


Just using the SRT-4 as an example not trying to single it out.

As for factory upgrades to the cars that were held back... that's just good business. I mean, a 280-300hp Evo is no slouch right out of the box. BUT, if someone wants a bit more, they can get parts from Mitsubishi to upgrade it (and retain their warranty.) You get a good car, with the option to make it better.

Maybe we just have a difference of opinion. I understand the idea behind good business, but they are just creating an aftermarket for themselves. Isnt it bad enough that they charge you, 30-40k for your "sports car"-shouldnt that price tag warrant the full, balls to the wall deal?

I think it should, but I understand if you feel different.


My post was in no way trying to be a douche, just did a little multi quoting to sorta carry a conversation rather then answer to all that in one long paragraph.

[Masamune]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Tell me you're not the same person.

[cbscandal]

I am not.