Do you think war in Korea is going to happen again?

[deevergote]

True... though I do wonder what debt means to enemies in war. Our debt to China may result in China not wanting to go to war with us, since I don't imagine we'd be terribly interested in repaying a country that's trying to kill us! Owing money to China actually serves as a reason for China to care about our wellbeing. That, and Buick... The Chinese love Buick.

[illinois_erik]

The only thing we can do is stand being SK like a big brother and hope that posturing is enough. NK attacks SK, it'll likely be more of an attack against us via our ally, rather than out of any real gain for themselves. NK has China as their big brother... and a war between the US and China would be messy indeed. We have more power, but China has more people.

This morning I heard on the AM radio news;China will back us up (EVen though theyre communist and seems fishy)and does not condone Un's blatant disregard for the world communities view on their nuclear testing. Un's rebuttal was to set off another underground nuke test.. I dont think China wants us getting into it before they get their money, or can acquire as much stateside property as they can at the moment. There is definitely something up China's sleeve.

[Warudakumi]

True... though I do wonder what debt means to enemies in war. Our debt to China may result in China not wanting to go to war with us, since I don't imagine we'd be terribly interested in repaying a country that's trying to kill us! Owing money to China actually serves as a reason for China to care about our wellbeing. That, and Buick... The Chinese love Buick.

And HummaZ..... They took our HummaZ!

[deevergote]

They took our HummaZ... but they buy our BuickZ!

[8ball]

china aint about to help america. you know that china is sending out cyber attacks to not only gov but corporate and personal networks? Yes they have a shit ton of info on us.


We dont pay them the debt back, they are going to show us how much harm they can do. Hell commit hella fraud on almost any citizen in the US and then cut the supply of goods going to america. And the dollar will inflate even more (yes america does want the dollar to inflate) and we will have alot less for alot more cost. Its funny that that you guys think America can bully the world. lol Im all for america but I just wish they would stop thinking only about themselfs in power and help out the citizens not strip them of everything and send them into battle.

Bastard fucks, if they decide to go to war then they should still be on the battle field. Live that life dont talk about it. Fucking politicians ...

[toycar]

Meh, China won't do shit.


If anything, it would be just like last time. They would show up to the dance, we would have an awkward stare across the dance floor, maybe a provocative look or two, and then we would all just agree to disagree and tone it down.

China isn't a very confrontational country-and I don't think the US is all that eager to bark up that tree. I think China would be like,"Damn, that wasn't very nice" after we blow up N Korea, and then we would be like,"You are right, here is 10 billion in aid for N Korea"


As the conversation took place, people in the backroom would be like,"Yo China, we need to borrow 10 billion to give to N Korea" and the Chinese would be like,"yup, at 15% interest of course" and then problem solved




Shit that might be the angle from square one. Get N Korea blown up, solves half of their worries. Drive us further into debt by offering us a loan, to give money to N Korea for humanitarian aid and all the while China benefits the most of all.


Just sayin. Global monopoly bitches, shit is real.


(I kid I kid)

[GeoffM]

Anyone see on CNN yesterday that NK is trying for an alliance with Iran, and possibly Syria?

That would be very very bad.

[LadyG]

There are a few historically based views that are missing from this discussion that I would like to provide.

N.K. Sees America and the west as Imperialists, looking to annex and exploit their country.
They had been fighting off other nations for centuries- and their Jung philosophy (like Marxism for Russian Socialism) is about resisting foreign influence, self reliance as a nation, and the supremacy of their way over all others.

Children are fed this "Jung" dogma from birth, and their entire culture is saturated with propaganda about how westerners desire nothing but the elimination of N.K. from the face of the earth. the extent of their forced labor/prisoner camps speaks to the real danger persons face from even turning their back to an image of their "dear leader".

And then, there is the fact that the only reason they hate S.K. is because it fell to the Imperialists. Their unfinished goal of the Korean war is the unification of Korea.

As to whether of not these people will fight in their current condition- lets consider a few things.
1. Guards/Military are fed better/before the common people. Lots of people will "join up" just to provide for their families.
2. Once we militarily pwn them, we will have insurgencies similar to Iraq, but it will not last as Iraq has- because the majority of people will be happy to have our food aid (which, as part of our sanctions against the country, we have not provided as we do in Africa)
3. Countries that have beef with us will aid the N.K. regime. Iran is under very similar sanctions, and has empathy for the situation in Pyongyang.

[toycar]

Anyone see on CNN yesterday that NK is trying for an alliance with Iran, and possibly Syria?

That would be very very bad.

Wouldn't be surprised.


There is an article circulating today about Iran and hezbollah forming a militia in Syria, some 50,000 fighters strong. Historically speaking, the US has talked openly about trade between N Korea and Iran and how it was concerning because N Korea had the fuel and tech to help Iran become a nuclear power.


I wouldn't be that surprised at all if somehow they already are backroom allies.




leung mentioned earlier that an egyptian company provides cell phone service in N Korea. This is true. It is a co-owned company between the gov and some company in Egypt.

So, seriously, being such a hidden culture, who really knows whats going on in N Korea. I bet the citizens are willing to join the military to avoid being starved, doesn't mean they are quality soldiers though.


Also, a starving man could be twice the tyrant as a fat, well fed man.


Just sayin, never underestimate the enemy. Hungry people get desperate. Americans follow international law and the geneva convention. Desperate hungry people would probably do anything their country condoned to better themselves.

[Pandemic]

fierce fighters. probably not



They have no food, they have no supplies. All they have is a tyrant leader.
I know China supposedly is siding with the US, but I think if we do mess with N. Korea or try to nip it in the bud, its going to set off their other communist country's pals . You think stirring up the wasp nest of muslims in the middle east was bad, thats just one group of people. This will be a handfull of countries that despise us that are familiar with Guerrilla warfare. Shit it could even turn into a Afghanistan vs. USSR in the 80s. Probably wont be anything but just another rental cop mission like the whole middle east "conflict" is/was.

I think S. Korea is #1 on their to do list though, which will engage anyone who has their back. Anyway, back to not caring.

Don't underestimate them. When faced with propaganda saying foreigners are going to rape you then run you over with a tank, it'll turn everyone there into a fierce fighter. It's life and death for them and we'd be going into their home.

From wikipedia in regards to the Japanese propaganda they were feeding to their own civilians:
Allied atrocities

Shinmin no Michi, the Path of the Subject, discussed American historical atrocities[3] and presented Western history as brutal wars, exploitation, and destructive values.[22] Its colonialism was based on its destructive individualism, materialism, utilitarianism, and liberalism, all which allowed the strong to prey on the weak.[190]

While minimizing the effect of the Doolittle Raid, propaganda also depicted the raiders as inhuman demons attacking civilians.[191] Shortly after the captured raiders had been tortured, and some executed, the Nippon Times denounced British treatment of German prisoners of war, claiming that American and British prisoners were being treated in accordance with international law.[158]

Allied war purposes were presented as annihilation.[192] Japanese civilians were told that the Americans would commit rape, torture, and murder and they therefore were to kill themselves before defeat; on Saipan and Okiwana, large majorities of the civilian population did commit suicide or kill each other before the American victory.[193] Those captured alive on Saipan were often terrified of their captors, particularly of the black soldiers, although this was not solely a factor of propaganda, but because many had never seen blacks before.[194] The demand for unconditional surrender was heavily exploited.[195] Interrogated prisoners reported that this propaganda was widely believed and therefore people would resist to the death.[33]

Accounts of American soldiers murdering German prisoners of war were also told, regardless of accuracy.[196]

Much play was made of American soldiers desecrating the bodies of the dead, omitting that such acts were condemned by both military authorities and from America pulpits.[197] That President Roosevelt was presented with a gift from a Japanese soldier's forearm was reported, but not that he refused it and argued for a decent burial.[198]

In American propaganda, much was made of Japanese calls to devotion to death.[199] Some soldiers attacked civilians, on the grounds they would not surrender, and which in turn served as grist for Japanese propaganda about American atrocities.[200]

Even before the American pamphlets warning of the great power of atomic explosions, newspapers commenting on the atomic attacks reported that the bombs could not be taken lightly; The Nippon Times reported that it was clearly intended to kill many innocent people, to end the war quickly, and others proclaimed it a moral outrage.[201]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...g_World_War_II


Civilian casualties

Saipan had been seized by Japan after World War I, and thus a large number of Japanese civilians lived there—at least 25,000.[2][unreliable source?] The U.S. erected a civilian prisoner encampment on 23 June 1944 that soon had more than 1,000 inmates. Electric lights at the camp were conspicuously left on overnight to attract other civilians with the promise of three warm meals and no risk of accidentally being shot in combat.[2][unreliable source?]

Weapons and the tactics of close quarter fighting also resulted in high civilian casualties. Civilian shelters were located virtually everywhere on the island, with very little difference noticeable to attacking marines. The standard method of clearing suspected bunkers was with high-explosive and/or high-explosives augmented with petroleum (e.g. gelignite, napalm, diesel fuel). In such conditions, high civilian casualties were inevitable.[12]

Emperor Hirohito personally found the threat of defection of Japanese civilians disturbing.[2][unreliable source?] Much of the community was of low caste, and there was a risk that live civilians would be surprised by generous U.S. treatment. Native Japanese sympathizers would hand the Americans a powerful propaganda weapon to subvert the "fighting spirit" of Japan in radio broadcasts. At the end of June, Hirohito sent out an imperial order encouraging the civilians of Saipan to commit suicide.[2][unreliable source?] The order authorized the commander of Saipan to promise civilians who died there an equal spiritual status in the afterlife with those of soldiers perishing in combat. General Hideki Tōjō intercepted the order on 30 June 1944 and delayed its sending, but it went out anyway the next day. By the time the Marines advanced on the north tip of the island, from 8–12 July 1944, most of the damage had been done.[2][unreliable source?] 1,000 Japanese civilians committed suicide in the last days of the battle to take the offered privileged place in the afterlife, some jumping from "Suicide Cliff" and "Banzai Cliff".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan

If we occupy DPRK, it will be a blood bath. We will not be seen as liberators. So no, we're not going to do that. If we're going to strike it'll be surgical air strikes.

[toycar]

Don't underestimate them. When faced with propaganda saying foreigners are going to rape you then run you over with a tank, it'll turn everyone there into a fierce fighter. It's life and death for them and we'd be going into their home.


If we occupy DPRK, it will be a blood bath. We will not be seen as liberators. So no, we're not going to do that. If we're going to strike it'll be surgical air strikes.

Pretty much exactly how I feel.


Pair this ideaology, with the whole "strike and set them back a decade" approach and Im sure it will be something in the middle if we are forced to play our hand.



If the North invaded the South that could get ugly though. I don't think that we would abandon our base and flee the area like bitches, so then we would be forced into a boot war. 26,500 American soldiers on base and an estimated 600,000 S. Korean soldiers vs the 1.1 million + of the North.


I dunno. Its not like I think we would lose. Im just saying that it would be a much bigger deal since we wouldn't flee the south, we would have to fight them. And that could not only take a while, but get pretty ugly.



A desperate starving person will be much crazier in the end compared to a healthy, well fed and protected one.




And because of that situation, I think if anything will happen it will be large scale, surgical mass destruction of air strikes to prevent a long drawn out boot fought war.

[Ralphie]

Here's a thought-


Desperate crazy starved people would fight a good fight....

Historically, any peoples who were malnourished and had no resources, typically fare way worse then a better fed prepared militia.

Yes there will be accounts of crazed ordeals, but that won't win a battle.

Not that there will be one, since we will strategically hit them and end it before it starts, trust me.

[toycar]

Here's a thought-


Desperate crazy starved people would fight a good fight....

Historically, any peoples who were malnourished and had no resources, typically fare way worse then a better fed prepared militia.

Yes there will be accounts of crazed ordeals, but that won't win a battle.

Not that there will be one, since we will strategically hit them and end it before it starts, trust me.

Nah Im not suggesting they will be better fighters or anything like that.


I am saying desperate people are fucking nuts. Lots of people could die in the process of fighting the war. If 1.1 million people said "Charge" and they all had sticks and rocks and attacked in unicen and a half a million people stood tall with guns, people with guns will still die.


Im sure LOTS of people will die. Thats my point. It will get real ugly.


Just as an example, look to native american history vs white men with guns. I mean white men with guns prevailed, and native americans were not desperate, but, they killed lots of people w/out bullets because they were brave and willing.


People that are starving, will be brave and willing. And they will probably have guns too. Their crazy willingness, will force us to kill lots of people or be killed ourselves.

[Ralphie]

So you're saying if a war breaks out, people will die??

You don't say!

LMAO

[toycar]

So you're saying if a war breaks out, people will die??

You don't say!

LMAO

Lol


There will be blood!!!