Do you think war in Korea is going to happen again?

[LadyG]

On NPR yesterday they said they N.K. shut down the "hotline" at the DMZ, are painting their civilian buses in Camo- and evacuating civilians into tunnels.
The annalist said that "such drills are common", "and Kim Jong Un seems like he is doing these things "for posturing purposes"- basically just to fuck with the West.

It sure fucks with me! lol

Another thing that makes this troubling is that, for the first time, China is participating in the sanctions (more like sanctioning the sanctions) They are the largest exporter to N.K. and are the only country that has provided regular Aid. They liked having another communist country around, but since the nuke testing- which they told them not to do- they can't really justify to the UN backing the DPRK without being lumped in with other "hostile nations" like Iran.

I think if we went in there and wiped their "superior nation"'s gov from the face of the earth ,they would fight us for a while- but when the forced labor camps are no longer guarded- there would be a refugee Exodus, and whom ever was left wouldn't have the resources as an insurgency that Iraq and Afghanistan have. Iraq has oil, Afghans have opium- resources that provide for the nation... that I am aware of, N.K. Has no cash export such as that.

[LadyG]

If you have never heard of VICE-
These guys go places where journalists don't go. Liberia, The Congo, N.K. ...
and the stories they tell are raw.
This is their trip to N.K., and it is extremely worth your time.

[Ralphie]

On NPR yesterday they said they N.K. shut down the "hotline" at the DMZ, are painting their civilian buses in Camo- and evacuating civilians into tunnels.
The annalist said that "such drills are common", "and Kim Jong Un seems like he is doing these things "for posturing purposes"- basically just to fuck with the West.

It sure fucks with me! lol

Another thing that makes this troubling is that, for the first time, China is participating in the sanctions (more like sanctioning the sanctions) They are the largest exporter to N.K. and are the only country that has provided regular Aid. They liked having another communist country around, but since the nuke testing- which they told them not to do- they can't really justify to the UN backing the DPRK without being lumped in with other "hostile nations" like Iran.

I think if we went in there and wiped their "superior nation"'s gov from the face of the earth ,they would fight us for a while- but when the forced labor camps are no longer guarded- there would be a refugee Exodus, and whom ever was left wouldn't have the resources as an insurgency that Iraq and Afghanistan have. Iraq has oil, Afghans have opium- resources that provide for the nation... that I am aware of, N.K. Has no cash export such as that.

The hotline has been down for a while now, not sure why they just reported it.

I saw it was offline the other day.

It is all just posturing imo.


also as far as the North is concerned, once the regime was removed, there are plenty of things the North can produce, food wise.

From Wikipedia-

In 2005, North Korea was ranked by the FAO as an estimated 10th in the production of fresh fruit[192] and as an estimated 19th in the production of apples.[193] It has substantial natural resources and is the world's 18th largest producer of iron and zinc, having the 22nd largest coal reserves in the world. It is also the 15th largest fluorite producer and 12th largest producer of copper and salt in Asia. Other major natural resources in production include lead, tungsten, graphite, magnesite, gold, pyrites, fluorspar, and hydropower.

Also the South want's reunification really bad, because they want to reunite family's etc...

the South could EASILY spread it's sucess to the North by opening facilities there for their major companies like Hyundai and LG.

They're in a much better position then the middle east, who ONLY have oil in their corner.

[jhoff]

I geuss this cancels my trip plans through North Korea.

Koryo Tours offers a tour through the country. LINK

Exclusive Independent tour itinerary
4 night tour, Tues-Sat
(this is a suggested itinerary only and can start on a different day)
Tues
AM: JS152 Flight Beijing-Pyongyang 11:30 departure, 14:25 arrival.
PM: Customs at Pyongyang airport, meet guides, Mansudae Grand Monument, Arch of Triumph, Fountain Park, White Tiger Art Studio, transfer to hotel.
Weds
AM: Drive to Kaesong, Panmunjom/DMZ, Kaesong Koryo Museum, Sonjuk Bridge
PM: Return to Pyongyang, meet a war veteran at the Victorious Fatherland Liberation War Museum (Korean War Museum), Mangyongdae Native House, Pyongyang Metro (5 stations)
OVERNIGHT: Potonggang Hotel, Pyongyang
Thurs
AM: Kumsusan Memorial Palace (Mausoleum of Kim Il Sung), Revolutionary Martyrs’ Cemetry, Juche Tower, Monument to Party Foundation
PM: Pyongyang Conservatoire for demonstration of traditional music, Mangyongdae Schoolchildren’s Palace tour and performance, drive to Mt Myohyang
OVERNIGHT: Hyangsan Hotel (upgraded room), Mt Myohyang
Fri
AM: International Friendship Exhibition (Hall of gifts to DPRK's leaders), Buddhist temple, walk in Manpok Valley
PM: Return to Pyongyang, USS Pueblo (meet the captain who helped capture the ship), Taedonggang Brewery, Golden Lane Bowling Alley
OVERNIGHT: Potonggang Hotel, Pyongyang
Sat
AM: JS151 flight (business class) Pyongyang-Beijing 08:55 departure 09:40 arrival. End of tour.

2 people, not includding your flight to China, is only $1900.

LOL, Im kidding.
I think this is a case were North Korea needs to be controlled and given to South Korea...to form Korea.

[toycar]

If you have never heard of VICE-
These guys go places where journalists don't go. Liberia, The Congo, N.K. ...
and the stories they tell are raw.
This is their trip to N.K., and it is extremely worth your time.

great link!!

I watched the whole thing. Crazy if you ask me.

[Ralphie]

I geuss this cancels my trip plans through North Korea.

Koryo Tours offers a tour through the country. LINK



2 people, not includding your flight to China, is only $1900.

LOL, Im kidding.
I think this is case, were North Korea needs to be controlled and given to South Korea...to form Korea.

Anyone want to go with me?

My wife said no.

When the day comes that it is not a threat anymore, and normal visiting resumes, it would be cool to visit but it wouldn't be as cool as saying you visited during the DMZ days!

[jhoff]

Anyone want to go with me?

My wife said no.

When the day comes that it is not a threat anymore, and normal visiting resumes, it would be cool to visit but it wouldn't be as cool as saying you visited during the DMZ days!

Id love to go once. Maybe after the wagon is finished.

[Ralphie]

Id love to go once. Maybe after the wagon is finished.

Anyone who has not been to South Korea, could not go to NK and then leave.

If I did that trip, id' want to fly to South Korea(from Beijing)

South Korea is awesome!

[Pandemic]

If we occupy DPRK there will be fighting like we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan where the enemy wears no uniform.

If they storm South Korea, they'll likely have armor and uniforms which will make it very easy to fight against.

I can guarantee we've always got targets dialed in so someone just needs to push a button and a massive artillery barrage will take out a huge number of enemy command and control. The rest will be taken with missiles and other air strikes.

The people will not see this as liberating. Decades of brain wash do amazing things.

Either way, the entire thing is a bluff. Years ago DPRK shelled an island and killed people. No war or retaliation broke out.

[toycar]

If we occupy DPRK there will be fighting like we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan where the enemy wears no uniform.

If they storm South Korea, they'll likely have armor and uniforms which will make it very easy to fight against.

I can guarantee we've always got targets dialed in so someone just needs to push a button and a massive artillery barrage will take out a huge number of enemy command and control. The rest will be taken with missiles and other air strikes.

The people will not see this as liberating. Decades of brain wash do amazing things.

Either way, the entire thing is a bluff. Years ago DPRK shelled an island and killed people. No war or retaliation broke out.

I feel like since there was no reaction then, there would have to be a reaction if happened now.

[LadyG]

I agree with that^.
And I have to disagree with Pandemic.

There are anywhere from 14 to 18 concentration camps in N.K. and more if you count the camps for the families of the political prisoners. People often flee, but many stay simply because any family that they left behind would be sent to one of these hell holes.

I just don't see a 10 year insurgent war occurring once we take out the standing army, and free, what is a LARGE majority of their population.
Will there be some, yes.

I see the reins of the conflict being handed to S.Korea after the initial fighting- trying to push the "unification" angle, and keeping the UN forces from having to deal with the long term job of rebuilding.

If it ends up an insurgent war- it wont be OUR problem.

That is MY prediction anyway. I am coming at this with Political knowledge, not military, so I could be sorely mistaken about the countries capability to sustain a conflict like Iraq.

[Ralphie]

Let me clear something up.

The South Korean's could easily handle a full on conflict with North Korea.

Of course, that is excluding nuclear attacks.

Like I said earlier, they have the ROK Army and then the Katusa's who are augmented to the US Army.

We are already there and have been since the downturn of the Korean war.

We chose to stay to protect SK im assuming and to help build the country up, so obv if something broke out, we would help SK.

After seeing how hard the South Korean's train, and the fact that their equipment is years ahead of NK, Im pretty confident in their ability to take hold of NK and move them along.

It won't be a case of us helping them, then we pull out of Korea and the country falls apart.

South Korea is a major country, Seoul is a major city much like the city of Manhattan.

They have been waiting for this for decades.

There will be no 10 year war.

There will always be casualties. SK has plenty of ground troops as well as a strong Navy and Air Force.


In fact, many wouldn't know this, but every year they hold a HUGE training event where militaries come from all over the world to train alongside the Koreans.

It's a joing Military excercise.

Im talking thousands and thousands of soldiers. It's quite impressive.

So what would most likely happen, would be us aiding them in facilitating the easiest cost effective end, with low low unintended targets.

I believe that even though most of the people have been fed the regime bs, that they still want the freedom their southern counterparts enjoy. That is why they sneak thousands of people across the border every year from NK to be reunited with family members.

So when SK comes rolling in, yes they will meet reistance but if you think poor starving people are going to kill South Koreans when they KNOW that is their ticket home, you're just crazy lol.

[toycar]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/15/us/nor...l?c=homepage-t


I think its interesting that they are expanding the protection of our west sea borders in response to these threats, but there is "nothing to be concerned about" because they are so "incapable" of attacking us.

Just sayin, its interesting. It's not like the US wants to give the gratification of responding with genuine fear, so, here we go. If it wasn't plausible, they wouldn't be taking these preventive measures.

They don't want to spark public worry, so the obvious answer is to tell everyone there's nothing to worry about. But If that were the case, what's all this expanding of defense about? Adding 14 units, to bring the number to 44 means increasing defense by almost 50%.


But I thought there was nothing to worry about....

[toycar]

Bump




So about a month has passed since we bs'd about this.


Seems like shit is about to get real out there.



What do you guys think is going to happen?

[GeoffM]

I held off voting on your poll the first time.
Now, I voted yes.
It seems inevitable. Someone will fire a missile, and the troops will begin fighting.
I think either today or April 15th.