Good alternative to Hmotorsonline for H22

[deevergote]

I'll never understand the fascination with the H23A VTEC. It's OBD2, so it's more complicated to swap in than an OBD1 H22A. The OEM ECU would be difficult to use, and most places don't carry them... so either we run an OBD1 P13, which is not correct, or we use a chipped ECU (which must be tuned, which can be expensive... and might end up being a crappy tune.)

Look at the specs:
H22A: 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) @ 6,800 rpm & 161.50 ft·lbf (218.96 N·m) @ 5,500 rpm
H23A: 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) @ 6,800 rpm & 163 lb·ft (221 N·m) @ 5,300 rpm

I mean, seriously... same peak horsepower at the same RPM, and 1.5lb·ft more, only 200 RPM lower. "H23A is a beast because of the massive torque!"... my ass.



Anyway, I'm sure hmotors could order more. They're becoming less common, seeing as they've been out of production for well over a decade now... but they're still available.

If you look elsewhere, I suggest going with a company located in the US. Many people like to go to Canadian companies, because they're cheaper (for whatever reason.) When they get a broken engine sent to them, they're pretty much screwed. They can write nasty letters, make angry phone calls, post on every internet forum about their experience... and you know what? Tiger and Osaka (the two biggest Canadian engine importers) have still been going strong, despite at least a decade of people on every forum I've ever been on saying how terrible they are. Nobody from the US can touch them, since an international lawsuit is VERY expensive!
Go with a US company, and at least you MIGHT have some legal recourse if you get a crap engine.

[toycar]

I think the next phase of swaps will be coming from donor cars rather than imported engines.


My opinion.



There are other parts that are worth swapping from the donor car that make it even more appealing too. Having the beefier half shaft assembly, the tranny is usually desired, brake system is a good swap, interior parts depending on what chassis, ECU if you are not going to mod it- and then you'd get 250-350 for the roller at the crush yard anyways.


Swap in old f22 and sell the prelude and now you just earned your swap for pennies on the dollar. I see H22 preludes occasionally for $1000 and regularly from $2500.


People spend nearly that much on the swap anyways.


So yeah, donor cars are the H22 venue of the future in my opinion. I bet there are more driving h22 preludes on the road than engines in the warehouse in japan.


They cannot drive the cars after like 60k miles-so, 10 years later how many of these cars are even operating? Plus, they have been a gold mine for importers for 2 decades, so of course they have been picked apart as fast as they come off the road forever, and, they've been out of production for a decade. So, of course supply is getting low and will eventually be completely gone.



H22 preludes? Shit, I bet theres fifty thousand on the road in the USA right now at least.

[The G-Man]

I'll never understand the fascination with the H23A VTEC. It's OBD2, so it's more complicated to swap in than an OBD1 H22A. The OEM ECU would be difficult to use, and most places don't carry them... so either we run an OBD1 P13, which is not correct, or we use a chipped ECU (which must be tuned, which can be expensive... and might end up being a crappy tune.)

Look at the specs:
H22A: 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) @ 6,800 rpm & 161.50 ft·lbf (218.96 N·m) @ 5,500 rpm
H23A: 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) @ 6,800 rpm & 163 lb·ft (221 N·m) @ 5,300 rpm

I mean, seriously... same peak horsepower at the same RPM, and 1.5lb·ft more, only 200 RPM lower. "H23A is a beast because of the massive torque!"... my ass.

In the end it isn't that complicated to get the H23AVTEC in... just an OBDI distributor, injectors, and a motor mount bracket. But I agree the chipped ECU does ramp up the price, as long as you get a proper tune. At the end of the day though, the H23 does have more potential for power with the right add ons.

[wildBill83]

There is a good reason they are out of stock. They buy motors that hit the Japanese 35,000 mile limit and the owners would rather sell the car/motor than pay the high taxes to keep the car. By now I would bet nearly any JDM OBD1 Prelude has long since hit the 35k mile limit and since been divided up and resold to the US market. It's not being manufactured anymore so eventually they had to run out of stock. Even if they did find one, how long has it been sitting on a shelf? The motors might be low mileage but by now would need a replacement of all seals anyway.

I would almost prefer a USDM H22A1/4 or H23A non-VTEC motor over trying to get a JDM OBD1 H22A. In my opinion it would be cheaper and easier to get a USDM H22A1 and work with it.

[Jarrett]

I don't think that the risk of a tune is something that you can hold against the engine. That type of caution and attention to doing things correctly is something that should apply to tuning any engine. I understand you only mean to say it's a situation you're forced into when choosing that engine for an OBD1 chassis, but I feel that it should just be presented with its necessary accommodations and left at that. Look on the bright side. That engine only came in an automatic transmission station wagon. Think of how easy most of their miles have been. Kilometers, sorry (I kid.). The '00-'01 models have the PDE Euro R head (that's how I got mine), though they always want to sell you the '98-'99 ones. Either way, I think it's a very decent engine that only has minor accommodations necessary to give you a pretty decent engine.

[deevergote]

I'd still prefer an OBD1 H22A over anything else. Closed deck, easy swap, easily obtainable stock ECU (with a USDM option for those that need emissions testing), and an easily available matched transmission so the powerband will work as planned with the gearing... the fewer things to screw up, the better!

[wildBill83]

I'd still prefer an OBD1 H22A over anything else. Closed deck, easy swap, easily obtainable stock ECU (with a USDM option for those that need emissions testing), and an easily available matched transmission so the powerband will work as planned with the gearing... the fewer things to screw up, the better!

JDM OBD1 H22A is identical to USDM H22A1 though... so why does it have to be JDM?

[toycar]

In the end it isn't that complicated to get the H23AVTEC in... just an OBDI distributor, injectors, and a motor mount bracket. But I agree the chipped ECU does ramp up the price, as long as you get a proper tune. At the end of the day though, the H23 does have more potential for power with the right add ons.

Nah, thats why nobody is racing an h23 and making a name for themselves.


Why?



All that extra stroke = more piston speed. Guys that build these engines for balls out racing know that the piston speed eventually becomes the issue that stops progress. That extra 5mm in stroke makes a difference in piston speed when you are turning at 9-10k rpm's.


You could do the math to see what I am talking about, but piston speed is the limiting factor of the h23. Plus, longer stroke is NOT ideal for forced induction. So, no matter how you slice it, the h22 is a better engine for performance and that is why tuners have flocked to it forever.


I mean, the engine has been around for like 15 years and it never really took off and it never really will. People get all excited like they found a better option than the h22 that doesn't start with the letter K.


Actually, its not a better option and I could quickly explain about a half dozen reasons as to why. Just saying.


Shorter strokes handle better in the turns too.

Why?

Power process happens faster, rpm range is WIDER during the turn and acceleration is more aggressive due to the shorter stroke.


All around, there is plenty of reasons why fan-boys LOVE the H23 vtec engine and NOBODY THAT IS DOING ANYTHING WORTH TALKING ABOUT is running one.

[deevergote]

These days, the best OBD1 JDM H22As are likely already swapped into someone's Accord or Civic. Look for a partout, ask questions, do a compression test...

[deevergote]

The JDM H22A makes roughly 10hp more than the USDM H22A1.

[toycar]

Theres like 3-4 blocks for less than $500 shipped to your door on ebay.


Several cylinder heads that are complete for less than $350 shipped to your door.



Seriously, I would go this route since any H22 I was going to run would be built anyways.


Just sayin, I would do it this way and spend about the same money but get baller parts instead of OEM used 20 year old goodness.


I would also be leaning towards the f20b + turbo for h22 swap money. Why not?

[wildBill83]

The JDM H22A makes roughly 10hp more than the USDM H22A1.

Isn't that due to fuel mapping on the ECU and emissions equipment differences? Don't they have the same closed deck, bore, stroke, IM/H/EX, and cams? Items that can be tackled on the USDM version as well?

[deevergote]

JDM H22A has a higher compression ratio (10.6:1) than the USDM H22A1 (10.1:1). The cams may be slightly different, though I've never seen proof of it.

It's really not that big of a deal, but they're not identical.
I still prefer JDM, not because of the supposed low mileage... but because an H22A found in a USDM car has probably seen multiple owners, the most recent likely to be careless kids that have abused them. Unless I'm doing a rebuild, I'd rather have a carefully selected engine from an engine reseller that has been on a shelf for a while (needing some refreshing) than an engine that has been beat on some douchenuts teenager.

[Jarrett]

JDM H22A cams are more aggressive than the H22A1/4 camshafts.

[XCRN]

I still prefer JDM, not because of the supposed low mileage... but because an H22A found in a USDM car has probably seen multiple owners, the most recent likely to be careless kids that have abused them. Unless I'm doing a rebuild, I'd rather have a carefully selected engine from an engine reseller that has been on a shelf for a while (needing some refreshing) than an engine that has been beat on some douchenuts teenager.

I think the H23 V-TEC is not used by kids as much before they are pulled, maybe that is where desirability comes in, and price. I was comparing prices when I was searching for my non V-TEC engine on ebay and a lot of postings for the H23 V-TEC came up for my search and they were all around $1200 while the H22 were going for about $2000, so price might be a deciding factor as well.