Can a CB7 match an Integra?

[Dyesuperman]

The basics should take you a long ways, as has been said. If I were to build one for handling, I would do Koni Yellows and Ground Controls, all poly bushings, quality strut bars, and a good wheel and tire combo to round it all out. So a lot of money. Good tires and good suspension will do the most for you though, no doubt

[Straight Success]

Stock for stock, probably not. The Teggy is lighter, more nimble, and depending on the trim, more powerful.

With mild/moderate suspension upgrades, the Accord should be able to keep up with the Teggy in the twisties with no problem. Again, also contingent upon the trim level (of both vehicle now that I think about it).

An H swapped Accord with the same suspension upgrades as noted above, and a Teggy with a B18C5 with the suspension upgrades mentioned above, it'll be close. I'm leaning toward the CB as the victor in this case. However, I can't be certain.

[Accord problems]

even with all the up grades i fined it kinda hard for the cb7 to keep with the integra in corners .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Accord



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine



B18C5

VTEC
Found in: USDM DC2 Acura Integra Type-R (Integra Type-R)
1997–2001 Integra Type-R (Note:1999 model CDM only)
Displacement: 1,797 cc (109.7 cu in)
Compression: 10.6:1
Bore: 81 mm (3.2 in)
Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.4 in)
Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.4 in)
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
Power: 190 hp (142 kW) @ 8000rpm & 130 lb·ft (176 N·m) @ 7500rpm
Redline: 8400rpm (Fuel cut-off @ 8500rpm)
VTEC Engagement @ 5,700 rpm
Transmission: S80 w/LSD




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_H_Engine


H22A Closed Deck 87mm/3.425 90.7mm/3.570 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) @ 6,800 rpm & 161 lb·ft (218 N·m) @ 5,500 rpm 31.0mm/1.221 219.5mm/8.643 53.8cc

[MrTShoff]

Nobody suggested to go hellaflush. He was just telling you to lower the car so you can take these turns you and your homies like speeding around for whatever reason.

I know he didn't but I don't want it on the ground was my point. I just don't know what else to call that look besides extremely lowered or whatever. Besides isn't that counterproductive to building a car for handling? I thought the cars always performed best at somewhere near stock height in most cases as race cars aren't "slammed to the ground"

[Ralphie]

Lowering a car for handling and lowering a car for looks is definitely two different things.

I think people who want the best of both get the adjustable coil overs...

but I would think the best handling is yes, slightly lowered...

slammed is no good.

[MrTShoff]

Stock for stock, probably not. The Teggy is lighter, more nimble, and depending on the trim, more powerful.

With mild/moderate suspension upgrades, the Accord should be able to keep up with the Teggy in the twisties with no problem. Again, also contingent upon the trim level (of both vehicle now that I think about it).

An H swapped Accord with the same suspension upgrades as noted above, and a Teggy with a B18C5 with the suspension upgrades mentioned above, it'll be close. I'm leaning toward the CB as the victor in this case. However, I can't be certain.

his is just a b18b so its not crazy powerful but I do want to be able to keep up. Im ordering the energy suspension bushing kit then some struts and springs or possibly f&f type 1s for it soon and I will go from there. I will probably ditch my idea of building the auto too so I need to save for a 5 speed swap.

[MrTShoff]

Lowering a car for handling and lowering a car for looks is definitely two different things.

I think people who want the best of both get the adjustable coil overs...

but I would think the best handling is yes, slightly lowered...

slammed is no good.

My thoughts exactly but the f&f type 1s are affordable and highly praised here soo I may get a set of those and just only take it down an inch or so. I will probably get some flak off my buddies (coilover and you're not lammed WTF??) but if thats what turns out to be the best setup for me then i'll do it. I really want the koni yellows and GC setup but that will have to wait.

[gloryaccordy]

Integra is a superior platform by a landslide. You might be able to match it in a straight line, and you might even be able to match it in grip + braking, but you will never be able to make up for the 400-500lbs difference. W/the same power to weight ratio and rubber an Integra will run circles around a CB on a road course.

Not to say the CB can't be FUN. But you will always feel its weight + size. It has the footprint of something like an old 5 series, whereas the Integra has the footprint of an old sports car.

[axle]

Stock for stock, not a shot in hell. Even modified for street use, ie minor suspension, bolt ons and such, still no way a CB will keep up with a DC or a DA. However, A RSX at the same power level and suspension mods, the CB will out handle it.

Realtime Racing had two RSX for I believe 1 possibly at most 2 seasons. They had a wicked hard time tuning the RSX to be able to corner. The problem lies in the McPherson Strut suspension in the front and The rear geometry of the suspension. If I remember correctly after they reworked the rear end, they still had to run some pretty ridiculous spring rates just to get the car to rotate. I think it might have been 900kg rears or more. (it was more then that. Some teams ran up to 4000kg on the rears to get it to rotate). The front struts were placed vertically with the tie rods attached to them, leaving the Steering at a higher then nominal angle to turn it. In the rear there has been an issue with the toe, but I haven't researched enough on that yet. Race teams want to stiffen up the rear to the point where there was no movement in it.

A RSX would be a better goal to out handle hands down. Plus it is kinda porky compared to the DC and DA. Weighing in roughly around 2790 lbs. it would be a good match for our CB. Although we are heavier stock vs. stock, Theoretically our rudimentary double wishbone suspension should be able to out turn the newer RSX suspension. Remember as time goes by, companies produce cars that are heavily biased towards understeering.

This leads me to my Medula Bad Idea that I had once I saw this thread last night. I look outside my window while reading this and see my 2007 Accord. My first thought started a while ago when trying to find rims for it. 4 by 114.3 lug pattern has a massively sparse aftermarket for affordable track rims. I believe I only found maybe 3 or 4 I would ever think to own (based on weight, track record, long term reviews, failures, and last looks which was the biggest killer for me). Well the '07 has a wonderful five lug pattern with much bigger brakes on the front and rear. The next though was to swap them into the CB and change around the suspension geometry a little.

Now the '07 Accord is a pig on the road in my eyes, however it has a much more up to date geometry and handling characteristics that can be tweaked. The bigger brakes if paired properly for the track with rotors and Brake pads would stop it faster in theory. It would be adding weight to the CB (Bad), but help it corner and stop faster (Good). It is a trade off.

The final on that is if my '07 ever gets totaled I think a Suspension swap might be in the works... sorry for the tangent...

[methylprop]

I would have to say I could feel a significant difference between my da9 and my cb7 in the way they handle. they DA was tight and nimble while my 4 door cb flexes badly. 2 door might be a different story. either way cb>da.

[Straight Success]

My CB coupe, after lowering it, really feels like a sports car. I've driven all types of sports casr. My CB, in its current state, does not feel like a family car. Granted, I haven't drove it in 3 months.

[MrTShoff]

Wow axle thats actually very useful info! I had no idea the rsx was worse than the teggys. Well that will be my goal because I want a car that feels like its on rails when turning but I dont want a civic/integra. Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate it!

[gloryaccordy]

7th gens are only 100lb heavier than their 4th gen equivalents. Also much stiffer, so they will do everything better- transfer power, brake, and turn due to wasting less energy flexing the chassis and also maintaining suspension mounting points under load. Truthfully aside from the looks the 7th gen is awesome. And the coupe isn't even that bad.

[axle]

Wow axle thats actually very useful info! I had no idea the rsx was worse than the teggys. Well that will be my goal because I want a car that feels like its on rails when turning but I dont want a civic/integra. Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate it!

I believe the EP3 Civics also suffered from suspension issues too, maybe not as badly as the DC5 chassis but non the less still suffered. Any model 2001 Civic/RSX and on wards really went backwards in the suspension department.

The only problem was that Honda at the time perfected the NA 4 banger. It doesn't get much better for small displacement 4 cylinders then the K series. That is where you are going to run into problems against the RSX. Even the budget RSX without the i-vtec system that the type-S and Type-R run they are putting out a healthy amount of power and torque. Enough to put our F-series to shame stock for stock 160hp/140 ft/lbs. 6500/5000 rpms respectively versus our stock top of the line F22a7 which was not in the American market putting out 150hp/145 ft/lbs. at ???/5000rpm. The power bands seem similar, but if I had to put money on usable power between the two my vote would be the base model K-series.

Now once you get into swap territory, the sky is the limit. It all depends on how much money you want to dump into the engine. Which is only one piece of the complex puzzle that we race in. My experiences on the race tracks with a turbo H22 are actually pretty amazing. There is plenty to do to it now to create a longevity base for the engine. I am running it in a dangerous zone with no bottom end build, which frankly is making me nervous. I am tossing around the idea of putting a F20b in because all the pieces to the puzzle are there as she sits. She has also put on a pretty good kill list including but not limited to an Evo X, a few STIs, a douche that didn't understand how to drive his Porsche. My favorites still are GSR and Swapped Integras/Civics though. There is a pride you get taking on other Hondas... sorry another tangent...

[RyanD]

Lowering a car for handling and lowering a car for looks is definitely two different things.

I think people who want the best of both get the adjustable coil overs...

but I would think the best handling is yes, slightly lowered...

slammed is no good.

how much would good tires come into play for handleing? i see people put Super McBadass setups on their cars and complain that it sucks when all along their tires were shitty