4g63T vs. f22a, 16g vs. 14b

[MonopolyMan]

people with dsm's run 20+psi on t25... so they obviously don't care about efficiency

Obviously they don't care about reliability ether.

[prodigymb]

If he was pushing 17psi . . . i would think he had a larger turbo . . . isnt 17psi WAY out of the optimum efficieny of that thing?

well yeah but they all do it anyways ... they chip their ecu's from 500-700$ it changes shift points, redline and boost so they get huge gains. www.goapr.com and look at some dynos. now if people actually get a real turbo bolted onto their block, lots of them use disco potatoes and gt35rs then they can still run very high boost such as 15psi on stock internals. picture the power numbers of a gt35rs at 15-18psi lol

[Dirty Harry]

what he said^^^



cha-ching

You know I get at least $.10 for that

[WiKKeDV16]

Lol.. ill send it via money order...

and yes they dont care about efficiency..

yes the 4g63 is smaller
yes the 4g63 has lower compression but regardless its still pushing double to that of what an accord would push

i believe they have 7:6:1 CR... or something

[prodigymb]

Lol.. ill send it via money order...

and yes they dont care about efficiency..

yes the 4g63 is smaller
yes the 4g63 has lower compression but regardless its still pushing double to that of what an accord would push

i believe they have 7:6:1 CR... or something

werd 2nd gen eclpise has a 7.8:1 CR

[skinnye1]

20psi on a t25 is way too much boost, higher boost numbers don't always make more power, if the dsm was to have a higher flowing exhaust with stock boost it probually would have ran a similar time becasue at that point the turbo is only pushing out heat. Turbo size has alot to do with this as well, say take a 42/48 t3 on a b16, now put a 48/60 on it running the exact same boost levels the 48/60 will obviously make more power running the same psi.

[gloryaccordy]

Is anyone forgetting that the F22 is actually larger thann the 4G63? More room for more air and fuel helps create more power too.

Yah, I was gonna post that we have 200cc over the 4G63 which can kinda go a long way. I'm not sure if comparing drag times is really even...there are too many variables. But our cars really make the most of boost, especially with a good tune. How much boost does it take to make 200whp from a 4G63? Is it like 10-11psi for us? I know they run ~11-14ish stock...

*EDIT* Also, it's key to really open up the head. Dare I say our heads flow better than stock 4G63s???

I'm still confused with turbo sizing though. Do bigger turbos run higher pressure ratios (more boost)? Or do they do the same boost for a higher starting airflow? I'm assuming it's the former...

[prodigymb]

I'm still confused with turbo sizing though. Do bigger turbos run higher pressure ratios (more boost)? Or do they do the same boost for a higher starting airflow? I'm assuming it's the former...

simple dsm example to answer ur question
bone stock 4g63
16g at 10psi makes more power then t25 at 15psi.
so its actually the latetr bigger turboes flow more air at same pressure.

[Clueless]

simple dsm example to answer ur question
bone stock 4g63
16g at 10psi makes more power then t25 at 15psi.
so its actually the latetr bigger turboes flow more air at same pressure.

Wouldn't be easier to say pressure is irrievent to how much power each makes, but it's bout the air flow of each turbo?

for an Example:

x=capaible air flow

a t25 at 10psi flows x amount cfm
a 14b at 10psi flows 2x amount cfm
a 20g at 10psi flows 4x amount cfm

Note: numbers aren't accurate figures, just to give a general idea.

[iamanonymous]

i believe 4g63t's have an iron block, not just sleeves. if a dsm had 9.0:1 cr at 14 psi w/ a 16g it would own. of course the same could be said about us. i can guarantee there are more well made turbo kitted dsm's than there are accords. its the guys with setups like mine or r33s that think they can be badasses at 15 psi. it goes back to the flow charts. also the t25 is a big (small actually) piece of shit. the 14b is soo much better. hell, the compressor housing alone is 100x better. honestly though imo 14b's aren't the best choice for f22b's tho cuz they die too early. hence my 16g, which i would trade anyday for a t3/t4.

[91accordwagon]

people with dsm's run 20+psi on t25... so they obviously don't care about efficiency

If I ever saw someone running 20+ psi on a t25 I'd tear the fucking engine out of their car and shoot them in the head.


But seriously til I picked up my cb9 DSM was my passion I've owned more eclipses in the past 5 years than I care to count. I love the 4g63 and everything that it can do. And if a person builds it right and do the steps accordingly you can push 300 to the flywheel running off the stock boost and turbo (14b) So if you've got the GST that's roughly 249 to the front wheels and if your running the gsx roughly 228 flowing through all 4. That's at 13 psi on factory specs. Don't get me wrong I love my f22 and I will love it more once it's properly built but DSM is still my passion. If your a fan of SCC this is the first year that a 1st gen eclipse hasn't been in the 10 car shootout. But if you look at the previous years the eclipses destory all cars in a straight line. (Take them to the road course and the dsm is fucked) DSM's are heavy, but built like a motherfucker off the factory line. You typically don't have to do any bottom end re-enforcement on them til your pushing around the 400hp range. That's a huge difference, we take our bottom ends to the 400 line and we'll be lucky to miss a piston flying through the cabins of our cars. Nonetheless I digress the 4g63t is built off the line for turbos and withstanding a shitload more pressure. Now for the pro's of the f22, we're taking blocks and heads that aren't built for turbo's and throwing down big numbers off very little boost. Personally I don't care who you are, that's impressive and that's something that demands respect. If our bottom ends were built like the 4g63t we would demolish them, without even trying. So in the end HONDA LUV

[flacopower]

How much boost does it take to make 200whp from a 4G63? Is it like 10-11psi for us? I know they run ~11-14ish stock...

*EDIT* Also, it's key to really open up the head. Dare I say our heads flow better than stock 4G63s???

it takes 14psi stock on a pos t25 to push 205hp and 210ft/lbs on a 2nd gen... and we have 9:0:1 compression i believe..

[westsideaccord]

f22a's have 8.8:1 ratio!

[KillerCam282]

So then the CR of the Eclipse must be lower. There is no way it can have more compression and less power.

[gloryaccordy]

So then the CR of the Eclipse must be lower. There is no way it can have more compression and less power.

It is lower. More than a point lower I think (like 7.6:1 to our 8.8:1). I'm sure that on top of that though they have better designed heads to control hotspots that cause pre-ignition & detonation though. If I were to go turbo, rather than spend extra on a bigger turbo, I'd def. get a turbo cam, get the valves and head redone to keep the chamber cool (do we have sodium valves???), and port the head. Headwork >>> more boost by all means; w/a cam and porting I don't think 20-30HP and a LOT more life out of the engine wouldn't be possible...