Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

F22a4 In-Vehicle Stock Engine Refresh Experience

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    F22a4 In-Vehicle Stock Engine Refresh Experience

    BACKGROUND
    My brother's 1990 Accord EX sedan 5MT with F22a4 has 368K miles (JHM VIN prefix, made in Japan) on it currently and with full maintenance performed, including a timing belt job. It never had the cylinder head removed as of 216K miles, when our family purchased it. Engine performance is surprising for the 368K miles on the engine and it currently gets 27.2 MPG. However, it burns 1 qt of motor oil every 400 miles!! My brother needs this car to last another 2 years and I'm afraid he will run motor low on oil and seize it.

    DIAGNOSIS
    I had my wife start the car with the engine cold and I watched the tailpipe. No initial puff of smoke, but once engine was running it smoked constantly. Very obvious smell of burning oil while the engine was running.

    Out of curiosity, I did a compression test and got 180-190 psi across. I assumed the carbon build up from the oil created a artificial engine seal. I removed cylinder head, sent it to the machine shop to get it inspected and reconditioned. The shop found one broken valve guide and one bent exhaust valve on cylinder # 3. This surprised me considering the good running condition of the engine. The shop confirmed the valve guide seals were not the cause for the engine oil consumption, so it was what I originally thought....piston rings.

    PLAN OF ATTACK
    Recondition the cylinder head, already done.

    Piston rings need to be replaced. Considering the block is still in vehicle, I plan to remove the stock piston/rod assemblies through the oil pan, ball-hone the cylinder walls, install new piston rings on the stock pistons and reassemble.

    I know the professional and proper procedure for the engine rebuild, since I've built my own performance F22ax motor (white project). Nonetheless, my brother has a limited budget and I need to improve the situation for this engine to last another 2 years.

    Ultimately, after all the work completed, this engine will be compared to its intial measureables to gauge improvement:

    Current:
    MPG: 27.2
    Oil Consumption Rate: 1 qt/400 miles

    PROGRESS
    Cylinder head is removed, refreshed and awaiting install. New OEM gaskets, parts and ball-hone tool all ordered. I receive everything by end of this week. I decided on a 320 grit ball-hone (Flex hone brand), bought the 3.5" nylon cylinder brush and honing oil. I am aware the Helms service manual states 400 grit for honing with stones.

    Also, I'm taking advantage of this time to do some preventative maintenance. For example, my bro had the heater core outlet hose burst on him not long ago, I repaired. Therefore, I am replacing the rest of coolant hoses. All IM coolant hoses are replaced and remaining heater hoses. Negative battery cable replaced, it was significantly frayed.

    Intake manifold EGR blocked off to prevent future clogged EGR passages and driveability issues. I cleaned the oil build up inside the TB, plenum and runners. Also cleaned the IM flange gasket surface, IM is ready for install. Block deck surface is also cleaned for new headgasket install.

    Next on this list:

    - Clean piston/rod assy, clean cylinder walls & ball-hone
    - Clean cylinder walls very well, lightly coat with motor oil
    - Install protection on rod studs to protect crankshaft
    - Lightly motor oil coat inside of ring compressor sleeve
    - Install piston ring compressor tool on pistons
    - Clean rod bearings, apply Torco MPZ engine assy lube
    - Install piston/rod assy into cylinders
    - Torque rod stud nuts to spec
    - Install new oil pick-up gasket & oil pick-up, torque to spec
    - Install new oil pan gasket & oil pan, torque to spec
    - Reinstall all other components to complete engine assy
    - Using Torco MPZ engine assy lube as necessary for camshaft/valvetrain.
    - Adjust valve lash, bleed coolant system, set base idle & ignition timing
    - Run cheap motor oil & filter for about 30 miles, drain motor oil
    - Perform final motor oil change & filter
    - Test original measureables against new to gauge improvement (take 3.5 work days for 400 mile accumulation)
    - Also, perform leakdown test after 400 mile accumulation to gauge engine health


    PRICING TOTAL: $500

    - reconditioned stock cylinder head (cleaning, valve job, valve seals, resurface) $200-225
    - IM gasket $10
    - EXH gasket $20
    - headgasket $50
    - piston rings $90
    - oil pan gasket $20
    - oil pickup gasket $2
    - honing tooling $80 (320 grit ball-hone, honing oil & nylon cylinder brush)

    OPTIONAL (not included in total):

    - valve cover gasket kit $25
    - rocker arm lower O-rings (qty: 4) $10
    - connecting rod bearings (qty: 4 sets) $72


    RESULTS

    Old:
    MPG: 27.2
    Oil Consumption Rate: 1 qt per 400 miles!!

    New:
    MPG: 29.8 (15-20 deg F weather)
    Winter Oil Consumption Rate: None in 400 miles.

    Warm Weather MPG: 30+
    Spring Oil Consumption Rate: Short of 1/2 quart @ 4,000 miles, March 2010.
    Last edited by HondaFan81; 07-05-2012, 01:42 PM.
    HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

    #2
    I'll be looking forward to these results! This is something that's much more approachable both technically and financially for many on this forum to get their f22 back to like-new running condition, hopefully!

    When you test engine compression, how many compression strokes do you use? I was taught by a technician when I worked for him to only let the cylinder go through 3 compression strokes (let the gauge needle bounce 3 times only).
    My Member's Ride Thread

    Bisimoto header before & after dyno

    1993 10th Anniversary: F22a6, H23IM, Bisimoto header, Custom mandrel exhaust, 5spd swap.

    Comment


      #3
      Personally, I keep cranking until gauge tops out and take note on # of cranks. I use that as reference for rest of cylinders.

      Just to clarify, I will be doing a leakdown test after accumulating 400 miles on the refreshed engine, not a compression test. At this point, I will know the new gas mileage and oil consumption rate.

      FYI: I've never done this refresh with engine block in vehicle or used a ball-hone, new experience. I'm curious to see how it works, perfect opportunity. I'm not looking for perfection, but improvement over the original condition, that is all my brother needs and can afford.
      Last edited by HondaFan81; 11-19-2009, 12:43 PM.
      HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by HondaFan81 View Post
        Personally, I keep cranking until gauge tops out and take note on # of cranks. I use that as reference for rest of cylinders.

        Just to clarify, I will be doing a leakdown test after accumulating 400 miles on the refreshed engine, not a compression test. At this point, I will know the new gas mileage and oil consumption rate.
        Agreed that a leak down is a better test for sealing of the rings. The guy I worked for was a very knowledgeable ASE Master technician and also an advanced engine electronics professor for UTI Houston (could explain in layman's how EVERY different possible sensor on an engine worked).....he always said no more than 3 compression strokes for the best numbers to go by.....I wonder what's correct....on to some research.
        My Member's Ride Thread

        Bisimoto header before & after dyno

        1993 10th Anniversary: F22a6, H23IM, Bisimoto header, Custom mandrel exhaust, 5spd swap.

        Comment


          #5
          Looking forward to the results!
          Originally posted by sweet91accord
          if aredy time i need to put something in cb7tuner. you guy need to me a smart ass about and bust on my spelling,gramar and shit like that in so sorry.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 19dabeast85 View Post
            Agreed that a leak down is a better test for sealing of the rings. The guy I worked for was a very knowledgeable ASE Master technician and also an advanced engine electronics professor for UTI Houston (could explain in layman's how EVERY different possible sensor on an engine worked).....he always said no more than 3 compression strokes for the best numbers to go by.....I wonder what's correct....on to some research.
            Leakdown will test the entire sealing of the engine, not just rings. Basically, it will check the head reconditioning work and rings. I am particularly interested in the ring seal though. I've used this shop before for head reconditioning and they have been reliable.

            Just look at it logically, the lower # of cranks necessary to reach the same pressure is better.

            Anyhow, this motor was like 4-5 cranks max. However, it's a false indication of motor health with the high oil consumption rate for many miles now creating a better seal.
            Last edited by HondaFan81; 11-19-2009, 01:06 PM.
            HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by HondaFan81 View Post
              Leakdown will test the entire sealing of the engine, not just rings. Basically, it will check the head reconditioning work and rings. I am particularly interested in the ring seal though. I've used this shop before for head reconditioning and they have been reliable.

              Just look at it logically, the lower # of cranks necessary to reach the same pressure is better.

              Anyhow, this motor was like 4-5 cranks max. However, it's a false indication of motor health with the high oil consumption rate for many miles now creating a better seal.

              I just searched around a bit and found a couple tutorials by supposedly real mechanics, everything I read said 5-10 compression strokes......that explains why my otherwise healthy engine has always given me lower numbers (160-170psi), haha. Back on topic!
              Last edited by HondaFan81; 11-19-2009, 01:06 PM.
              My Member's Ride Thread

              Bisimoto header before & after dyno

              1993 10th Anniversary: F22a6, H23IM, Bisimoto header, Custom mandrel exhaust, 5spd swap.

              Comment


                #8
                5-10 cranks is more than enough to get your max compression pressure, based on several motors I've experienced.

                The purpose of this thread is to share my experience with others perhaps considering and report the results. Indirectly, this will also give insight on how to complete the job.
                Last edited by HondaFan81; 11-19-2009, 01:11 PM.
                HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Performed the following today:

                  - Remove exhaust system from under vehicle.
                  - Remove front-to-rear support brace under oil pan.
                  - Remove oil pan, oil pick-up tube & clean both
                  - Remove carbon ring top of cylinder walls.
                  - Remove piston/rod assemblies.
                  - Remove old piston rings.
                  - Inspect rod bearings

                  Notes:

                  Oil pan gasket was very brittle and leaking. All cylinder walls have decent surface condition, no scoring or any wear felt by hand. Original honing pattern still visible for most part, but some areas have a polish.

                  Nothing abnormal noticed on the top and second piston rings. However, all pistons had oil deposits/build-up in the oil/spacer rings. These rings were sticky within the piston grooves and would not rotate freely. These oil rings were a bit stubborn to remove.

                  All rod bearings had no scoring, grooving or raised wear. However, there are some polished areas and the heavier wear areas on the rod bearings are concentrated at the connecting rod halves/fastener sections.

                  I will not be replacing the rod bearings, they are OK to reinstall and not worth my brother having to save up more money. He doesn't exactly make much and this car just needs to last another 2 years. It's not worth the cost of the bearings (~ $75). Remember this engine has 368K miles.
                  Last edited by HondaFan81; 11-24-2009, 04:30 PM.
                  HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Performed the following last night:

                    - Install new top & second rings into cylinders, measure end gap per Helms service manual

                    Notes:

                    I labeled each set of rings per cylinder, to keep them dedicated. I followed the Helms factory service manual procedure for piston ring end gap measurement for top and 2nd rings. They were within gap specification per cylinder. I noted everything on paper per cylinder.

                    I spent an extra few minutes to install cylinder # 1 original 368K miles piston rings back into that cylinder to measure end gaps. I found it to be just out of specification for both top & 2nd ring.

                    Piston Ring End Gap Spec:

                    Top ring end gap: .008 - .014 inches
                    2nd ring end gap: .016 - .022 inches

                    368K mile Cylinder # 1 End Gap:

                    Top ring end gap: .015 inches
                    2nd ring end gap: .024 inches

                    Basically, the old rings were definitely worn and the end gaps are only larger as make your way up the piston. Tonight, I want to check the end gaps at middle and towards top of each cylinder. I'm curious on the taper and how worn these cylinders are. I hope it is all good enough. My brother doesn't have the money to bore, hone, larger piston kits. Heck you may as well throw in new engine bearings at that point. It would make more sense to just swap in a good used short block at this point.

                    Assuming all this is good enough, I will clean the pistons and install/clock the rings.
                    Last edited by HondaFan81; 11-25-2009, 11:56 AM.
                    HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I like seeing you break down the refresh like you are, instead of "I measured stuff and it was perfect, then I slapped it back together and it ran fine." I LOVE seeing the details specs and other detailed info.
                      Originally posted by sweet91accord
                      if aredy time i need to put something in cb7tuner. you guy need to me a smart ass about and bust on my spelling,gramar and shit like that in so sorry.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        just out of curiosity what is the labor time on this and est. costs. My 90 F22a could use some help. Has 214k but was driven by 3 college kids prior to my getting it.
                        LIVE FREE OR DIE

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ironhead View Post
                          just out of curiosity what is the labor time on this and est. costs. My 90 F22a could use some help. Has 214k but was driven by 3 college kids prior to my getting it.
                          I can not accurately say. Originally, this started as a recondition head installation job, then transitioned to a quick engine refresh. Once this led me to piston rings, I told my bro I'm doing this on my own time, no schedule.

                          If you refer to a shop doing work, most shops capable of doing an engine rebuild would do a bore/hone/new rings and new engine bearings. Otherwise, they can not warrant their work. This route is the proper way and would cost more, especially with reconditioned head.

                          You would be better off installing a good used condition F22ax entire motor (head & block) for cheaper than an engine rebuild.
                          HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Performed following tonight:

                            - Installed block off plates for air starting valve & EGR (thanks frootloops).
                            - Cleaned all four pistons:
                            * 1st piston ringland (second most time consuming)
                            * 2nd piston ringland (least time consuming)
                            * Oil ringland & respective 10 oiling holes (most time consuming)
                            * Removed most carbon off top of piston & valve reliefs

                            NOTE:

                            Cleaning the piston ringlands surprising took longer than expected. Since this engine burned oil, significant carburized oil was present on the top and oil ringlands. All 10 oiling holes in the oil ringland were plugged as well, had to use a small precision flat-head screwdriver to clean them. I used edge of a section of old 2nd piston ring to clean all ringlands. There was also carburized oil on the entire circumference of the piston, between the 2nd and oil ringland that needed to be removed. Seriously, I probably spent 30 minutes per piston to clean everything mentioned. I found humor in it, as I was thinking that if this engine block was bored/honed, I would be dealing with new pistons and have no need for this. No question, the piston rings top and oiling rings were definitely sticking with the amount of carburized oil I removed.
                            Last edited by HondaFan81; 12-10-2009, 01:22 AM.
                            HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Would have been curious to see before / after dyno results as well.
                              Are you working this everyday Cisco or just when you have spare time?
                              Once this is finished I think it should be stickied, Have you taken any pictures during the process?

                              Work looks good so far, keep at it
                              Definatly interested to see the final results


                              Car Safety / General Servicing Checks --------Basic suspension checks

                              My 5.7 LS1 Holden Ute

                              A "Finished" project car is never finished until its been sold.

                              If at first you don't succeed, Try again. Don't give up too easily, persistance pays off in the end.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X