the Gun Control thread

[phatdoughnut]

How's this stats?

Gun deaths per country

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms

9369 compared to 144.

Gun control works the way I see it.

On the fist link it says the NRA says "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Well not in my mind

I bet you we also have more guns than everyone put together on that list which makes us the least deaths together and we have the right to own guns.

[stewie]

I bet you we also have more guns than everyone put together on that list which makes us the least deaths together and we have the right to own guns.

Highly doubt that

But I'm not saying you don't have a right to own them, I'm merely saying tighten the laws to aquire, and gun crimes will go down. Not immediately, but over time.

[steelbluesleepR]

that doesnt take into account population either.

here are the first 5 countries on that list (and canada, since we are talking about that) on a per capita basis (gun deaths divided by total country population according to wikipedia)
South Africa: 31,918/51,770,560= 0.0006165 deaths per person
Columbia: 21,898/46,839,000 = 0.000467 Deaths per person
Thailand: 20,032/65,479,453 = 0.000306 Deaths per person
United States: 9,369/314,982,000 =0.0000297 Deaths per person
Phillipines:7,708/92,337,852 0.0000834 Deaths per person
Mexico: 2,606/112,336,538 = 0.0000231 Deaths per person
Canada:144/35,015,000 = 0.00000411 Deaths per person

in terms of death per population, yes we are higher than canada or mexico, but nowhere near the rest of the top of that list. If you are having trouble reading the numbers, the US is a full order of magnitude safer from murderers that used guns than South Africa, columbia, and Thailand.

[stewie]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...rochester.html

you guys sure you dont need gun control? someone gave that man a firearm, a man who was forbidden to posses one....would be nice to the families of the dead firefighters so they could find out who it was and see him punished.

[steelbluesleepR]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...rochester.html

you guys sure you dont need gun control? someone gave that man a firearm, a man who was forbidden to posses one....would be nice to the families of the dead firefighters so they could find out who it was and see him punished.

he was breaking the law we already have in place. if there were more laws in place he would have just broken those too.

[stewie]

he was breaking the law we already have in place. if there were more laws in place he would have just broken those too.

i 100% agree with you, however, what i was trying to imply was a registration for guns that i mentioned in previous posts.

he has a gun illegally that he got from someone, that someone most likely got it from someone else(etc etc...) who stole it from a home invasion or bought it from a shop illegally.

registrations help identify where the gun started from. was it stolen and not reported? if not reported is it possible a man sold the gun without doing it the legal way? kinda like aiding and abetting, you know your selling a gun illegally, and your helping a criminal commit future acts of violence with that illegally obtained gun. if the gun serial numbers come back as never sold..then go after the distributor who it was sent to.

but anyways, its christmas eve, im gettin ready to go to church then meet up with my cousins, so have a merry christmas, and i'll be back in a day or 2 to defend my statements

[phatdoughnut]

i 100% agree with you, however, what i was trying to imply was a registration for guns that i mentioned in previous posts.

he has a gun illegally that he got from someone, that someone most likely got it from someone else(etc etc...) who stole it from a home invasion or bought it from a shop illegally.

registrations help identify where the gun started from. was it stolen and not reported? if not reported is it possible a man sold the gun without doing it the legal way? kinda like aiding and abetting, you know your selling a gun illegally, and your helping a criminal commit future acts of violence with that illegally obtained gun. if the gun serial numbers come back as never sold..then go after the distributor who it was sent to.

but anyways, its christmas eve, im gettin ready to go to church then meet up with my cousins, so have a merry christmas, and i'll be back in a day or 2 to defend my statements

even though we don't have registry it can still be traced to the last transfer and that is where the cops will do their job. It doesn't matter to me, Criminals will be getting their guns from somewhere either way because after all they are criminals and they don't follow the law.

He also burned his sister in the fire, such a shame.

NY also has every kind of ban you can think of and it still didn't do anything.

for all we know that gun came from Mexico or Cananda but we will never know because the media will not report it to make it look even worse.

[wildBill83]

Highly doubt that

But I'm not saying you don't have a right to own them, I'm merely saying tighten the laws to aquire, and gun crimes will go down. Not immediately, but over time.

Statistically speaking, in the US at least, the gun crimes go up when the laws are tightened down.

[Ralphie]

^^ no replies? wow, lol, was expecting a few to yell at me at least

and i know this is a wiki site so im sure its not 100% authentic, but it is able to give a rough idea about gun control and civilian safety.

hardest countries to aquire a gun

canada is up there at number 3, america is number 21. dont you find it the slight weird that the canadian guy (me) is continually complaining about gun control in this thread?

LOL did you even read that wiki???

It is way off.


So your saying tighten the laws in the US and it will make it better right?

That list is the hardest countries to get weapons in right?

So Brazil is # 2?

So you must have missed this tidbit-

Although Brazil has 100 million fewer citizens than the United States, and more restrictive gun laws, there are 25 percent more gun deaths

What's that now? Tighten restrictions will decrease deaths?

I think Brazil is calling.

[phatdoughnut]

This one tickles my fancy

http://news.yahoo.com/dc-cops-invest...-politics.html

[Ralphie]

Ya I mean im not going to sit here and argue over this, it's a very debatable topic, and Im in no place to lecture anyone or even try to convince anyone of anything as im no pro on this topic.


All I know, is that when intoxicated drivers were at an all time high, more restrictions didn't slow them down.

Education(MADD) and more policing/checkpoints did.

Im only for regulations on military spec weapons, as I served, and there is absolutely NO need to have an m240B or SAW on the streets.

Sidearms and hunting all the way.

Shotguns are great examples of protection peices.

High powered weapons are just over kill and just not necessary.

In the end however, people are going to aquire what they want and do what they want.

We can as a country come together and do more to advocate for the mentally ill and be alert to the signs but the human mind always needs an answer, and honestly as cruel as it is, there won't always be one.

Shit like Newtown will happen here and there and as long as we take steps to prevent it, then were doing what we can.

I don't think tighter regulations on all firearms or the stripping of Amendments are the answer.

Can't compare Canada and the U.S.

Even though there are similiarities, were just different countries with different outlooks.









See I thought about it, and even im torn.


I myself thought that eventually one day it would be cool to own an m16 or an m4.

I would do nothing more then go to the range with it.

It depends on where you live though.

I visited family friends in Fla(gulf coast) and he has a collection of diff types of weapons.

My father, him and I went to the range.

We shot a 22, 9mm, 38, 45, SKS, and one or two other weapons im forgetting.

We were with him, we brought all of them and our own ammo and they didn't bother us.

This particular range was made up of mostly older men, many older vets from WW2 who were all enthusiasts and collected time specific weapons.

I think that's cool and my reasoning for collecting an m16 would be for nostaligia.

I carried one for 4 years on active.

I never deployed but holding one just brings back so many memories of training. Days spend in the rain trying to improve my shot group and so on and so forth.

So Idk if I could even own one in my state, as I haven't even looked since my wife isn't even comfortable with handguns in the home(once we have kids and obv I want one for protection) but she has never been to a range and I think once she goes and see's that they are just peices of machinery that need to be operated in order to kill and as long as they are shown absolute respect and handled responsibly at ALL times, they are no more dangerous then a butchers knife.

I never in a million years thought id enjoy shooting.

Growing up in NY/NJ/Fla I thought it was a crazy mid west/Tx ideaology LOL, no offense.

Then I signed up and actually learned how to use them and saw that its quite competitive and just downright cool.

Now I miss the times spent at the range.


So with thoughts to control where does it end?

I do agree that high powered weapons don't belong on the street.

It just makes it harder for law enforement to do their job when shit hits the fan.

The reason why police started carrying more then 6 shooters was because the criminals started carrying magazine weapons that out powered them.

So now the Swat shows up with m4's etc and face off against these guys with high powered weapons....where does it end?

I don't know if I consider an m16 "high powered".

Its a military weapon, and it is built with intent on killing, but it only has two modes....single and 3 round burst.

Not really high powered compared to some of the shit they have now.

idk I guess it depends on how you look at it.

You can kill 10 people with an m16 in either mode, or with a 9mm if no one is armed or respond in time.

So what's the difference?


I mean shit, a well placed 22 round would kill 10 people....

but people have been known to walk off a 22 round lol.

High powered?

[accord93racer]

I do not agree with the proposed legislation on banning "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines. As others have stated this was done in the past and it did next to nothing. There are some loopholes in the original ban that could be closed but by closing those loopholes it would only affect law abiding citizens that use guns for hunting, sporting, recreation, etc.

Not to mention the proposed legislation would make thousands of people jobless and would close a lot of businesses that mainly sell specialized/custom rifles to the public.

A criminal will find a way to commit an evil act no matter what laws are in place.

I think it is hard for individuals from other countries to completely understand the American culture because a lot of what they go off of is what is broadcast on the television and what is published on the internet, the majority of both of those are controlled by sensationalizing liberals. The culture and dynamic is so much different in the USA than that of any other country because there is so much diversity and such a large population.

Making it harder to purchase a firearm will have no affect on a criminal. Limiting production of firearms will have no affect on a criminal.

Part of the answer to this problem is removing the social stigma that having a mental health problem means you or your family are not good people. Not to mention that getting help for a mental health issue is rather expensive, and I am not sure if insurance will cover any of the incurred costs.

In my mind the first step would be to revise mental health care and then go from there.

[accord93racer]

In response to Ralphie's last post, there would be a lot of problems banning or controlling "high powered" guns. A vast majority or a tiny few could fall into that category. A lot of bolt action hunting rifles can shoot further distances than a .223 and can cause more damage.

[stewie]

ralphie, i did read it say that brazil has 100 million fewer citizens that usa with many more restrictive gun laws and 25% more deaths. also read that many exported guns make their way back into brazil illegally, and many cops and soldiers have their guns "stolen". honestly i dont see to many american soldiers or police officers loosing or having guns stolen from them. i'm not saying it cant or hasn't happened, im just saying im pretty sure the rate there is higher than america.

but i would like to say something about your drinking and driving comment.
my city has canadas hardest drinking and driving laws, get pulled over or go through a road block, and are in the "warning range 0.05-0.08 (1-4 drinks): 3-day ban + $200 fine… additional fees make total $600, Greater than 0.08 (2-5 drinks): 90-day ban + 30-day car impound + $500 fine + possible criminal charge… additional fees of towing, interlock ignition device, responsible driver program, etc make total up to $4,060. i'm not going to lie, i used to go to my buddies houses, have a few beers while watching the hockey game, and drive home. but with the laws so strict now and the cons outweighting the pros...its easier for us to keep it legal now and just take a cab/public transportation to and from. so yes, more restrictions did work. the number of deaths/accidents from impaired driving has dropped significantly!

but other than that, yes, i agree with you, any weapon designed for military should not be able to be aquired to civilians, like you said, theres no need what so ever for someone to personally own a firearm like that.
but like you said, were different countries with different outlooks.

when i was a kid, yeah i thought owning a machine gun would be bad ass, but as i got older, i realized theres absolutely no point in me having one.
i never thought i would enjoy shooting either until my buddy took me camping in a remote part of the mountains and we started shooting clays. after that i was hooked, went and got my licence. even though im able to buy a semi auto ar-15 in canada, i will never buy one, its just not practical to me. i go to the range quite a bit, and like you, the range is usually full of older men with rifles, some fancy looking semi auto ones, some plain jane bolt action ones, mainly though, they're there to just practice their grouping or sighting in a scope.

yes, where does gun control end.
okay, we both agree high powered weapons dont belong on the street.
yes, it makes law enforcement a hell of a lot harder and unsafer when shit hits the fan.
yes, police started carrying more than 6 shooters because criminals started carrying gun with magazines that could hold 30+ in a weapon that made their 6 shooter look like a squirt gun. had a restriction been in place back then, do you think today would be where it is as in the whole "gun control" topic?
yes, and m16 isn't high powered to some, but for personal defence, its more than enough for any person. like you said, a pistol or a shotgun would be sufficient.

and its true, an m16 or 9mm can kill the same ammount of ppl if nobody is armed or able to respond in time. i mean fuck, a .22lr could do just as much damage if you can get every shot to count.

on a side note, my brother was even talkin about this, and yes, his analogy is pretty weak, but it was understandable to me. he said something along the lines of this. "the speed limit is 50kmph, and everyone pushes it a bit, some doing 55...some 60, etc. nobody thinks of themselves as a threat to society by speeding just a few kms over the limit, but when youve got several other people that are telling you time and time again that you need to slow down cause they dont feel safe with how fast your driving, maybe its time to take a hint and look at yourself and realize and think "am i a threat?" adn maybe tone it down a bit from there"

[phatdoughnut]

Are you guys putting an AR-15 and an M16 in the same classification?

I don't give a crap machineguns really, it doesn't even bother me that there is a ban on machineguns/suppressors/destructive devices/short barreled rifles and shotguns. I have no idea why suppressors are even on that list? Its BS.

Would I like a machine gun? sure who doesn't but the truth is that I can't afford to shoot them or afford to buy one. An M16 or any machinegun for that fact is SUPER expensive 10+ thousands of dollars because there is only so many that were "registered" by 1986 when we had the ban.

Just don't take away my AR-15 that is way under powered compared to my friends 30-06 or 7mm win.

Why is the gov so afraid to put police officers or some kind of security at every school? Their kids have protection why can ours? Nothing matters anyways, gov will do whatever they want and think will make everyone safe.