the Gun Control thread

[stewie]

Are you guys putting an AR-15 and an M16 in the same classification?

I don't give a crap machineguns really, it doesn't even bother me that there is a ban on machineguns/suppressors/destructive devices/short barreled rifles and shotguns. I have no idea why suppressors are even on that list? Its BS.

Would I like a machine gun? sure who doesn't but the truth is that I can't afford to shoot them or afford to buy one. An M16 or any machinegun for that fact is SUPER expensive 10+ thousands of dollars because there is only so many that were "registered" by 1986 when we had the ban.

Just don't take away my AR-15 that is way under powered compared to my friends 30-06 or 7mm win.

Why is the gov so afraid to put police officers or some kind of security at every school? Their kids have protection why can ours? Nothing matters anyways, gov will do whatever they want and think will make everyone safe.

i was saying ar15 cause that was the first gun that came to mind since its been said 10million times in this thread.

but do you really have no idea why a surpressor is on a ban list?? how many people could be killed in public with a loud BANG for everyone to hear, compared to people seeing people just dropping like flys?

like i said, im canadian, and at every school in my province, we DO have police officers at schools(school liaison officers). an officer is designated at every school, his job is to walk the halls during the nutrition breaks/lunch, make sure he doesnt see any kids selling drugs or kids fighting, or if there was an even to hit the fan that involved a gun, hes first on scene. and he helps guide kids who seem to be going down the wrong path, take them on a personal field trip, let them see what they're life could and will look like if they continue where they're going...try to knock some sense into them basically.

like you said, government will do whatever they want to do. some will like it, others wont. when they do something that your completey for, how many people do you think there is that are completely against it?

[accord93racer]

ralphie, i did read it say that brazil has 100 million fewer citizens that usa with many more restrictive gun laws and 25% more deaths. also read that many exported guns make their way back into brazil illegally, and many cops and soldiers have their guns "stolen". honestly i dont see to many american soldiers or police officers loosing or having guns stolen from them. i'm not saying it cant or hasn't happened, im just saying im pretty sure the rate there is higher than america.

I would really like to see the statistic as far as the percentage of gun crimes committed in the USA and if the gun was registered to the criminal who used the gun. This again goes back to a criminal that wants a gun will find the means to get said gun. A criminal is not going to go to a gun store and put their name on a list and submit all the information to purchase a gun legally.

but i would like to say something about your drinking and driving comment.
my city has canadas hardest drinking and driving laws, get pulled over or go through a road block, and are in the "warning range 0.05-0.08 (1-4 drinks): 3-day ban + $200 fine… additional fees make total $600, Greater than 0.08 (2-5 drinks): 90-day ban + 30-day car impound + $500 fine + possible criminal charge… additional fees of towing, interlock ignition device, responsible driver program, etc make total up to $4,060. i'm not going to lie, i used to go to my buddies houses, have a few beers while watching the hockey game, and drive home. but with the laws so strict now and the cons outweighting the pros...its easier for us to keep it legal now and just take a cab/public transportation to and from. so yes, more restrictions did work. the number of deaths/accidents from impaired driving has dropped significantly!

These sound like stiffer penalties for committing the crime. Did they ban alcohol? Put regulations on how much you can buy? Swip your ID card everytime you want to purchase alcohol and put you on a list with how much you have purchased? Ask all your personal information before you could purchase alcohol?

but other than that, yes, i agree with you, any weapon designed for military should not be able to be aquired to civilians, like you said, theres no need what so ever for someone to personally own a firearm like that.
but like you said, were different countries with different outlooks.

when i was a kid, yeah i thought owning a machine gun would be bad ass, but as i got older, i realized theres absolutely no point in me having one.
i never thought i would enjoy shooting either until my buddy took me camping in a remote part of the mountains and we started shooting clays. after that i was hooked, went and got my licence. even though im able to buy a semi auto ar-15 in canada, i will never buy one, its just not practical to me. i go to the range quite a bit, and like you, the range is usually full of older men with rifles, some fancy looking semi auto ones, some plain jane bolt action ones, mainly though, they're there to just practice their grouping or sighting in a scope.

yes, where does gun control end.
okay, we both agree high powered weapons dont belong on the street.
yes, it makes law enforcement a hell of a lot harder and unsafer when shit hits the fan.
yes, police started carrying more than 6 shooters because criminals started carrying gun with magazines that could hold 30+ in a weapon that made their 6 shooter look like a squirt gun. had a restriction been in place back then, do you think today would be where it is as in the whole "gun control" topic?
yes, and m16 isn't high powered to some, but for personal defence, its more than enough for any person. like you said, a pistol or a shotgun would be sufficient.

and its true, an m16 or 9mm can kill the same ammount of ppl if nobody is armed or able to respond in time. i mean fuck, a .22lr could do just as much damage if you can get every shot to count.

on a side note, my brother was even talkin about this, and yes, his analogy is pretty weak, but it was understandable to me. he said something along the lines of this. "the speed limit is 50kmph, and everyone pushes it a bit, some doing 55...some 60, etc. nobody thinks of themselves as a threat to society by speeding just a few kms over the limit, but when youve got several other people that are telling you time and time again that you need to slow down cause they dont feel safe with how fast your driving, maybe its time to take a hint and look at yourself and realize and think "am i a threat?" adn maybe tone it down a bit from there"

Also I am curious as to what some of you guys are considering "high powered"?

I think harsher punishments against criminals who commit a crime with a gun could help, however if they are on a suicidal shooting spree not much will stop them except a "good guy with a gun."

[stewie]

for the first part highlighted in red, http://www.jhsph.edu/research/center...s_theft_fs.pdf

if a criminal plans on doing a suicide mission, i highly doubt hes going to care if he registers and obtains the gun legally.

These sound like stiffer penalties for committing the crime. Did they ban alcohol? Put regulations on how much you can buy? Swip your ID card everytime you want to purchase alcohol and put you on a list with how much you have purchased? Ask all your personal information before you could purchase alcohol?

yes, much stiffer penalties, which are there to deter you from doing so. alcohol is not banned...theres no limit to how much you can buy. yes, some places are able to swipe your drivers licence and read the magnetic strip on the back to see if its real...clubs do it even..proves if its a fake id or not. if they swipe the card, they dont ask, if you look under the age of 60, expect to have your id ready in hand. if the clerk sees you talking with kids outside the store, odds are the clerk will refuse you service due to you most likely buying beer for minors.(if they see a money transfer)
. im in my late 20's, and i went to a liquor store with my 12 year old female cousin and her 16 year old brother, and i was denied service.

when im saying high powered rifle, im mainly reffering to military spec weapons and assault rifles. (if you wanna keep em fine...use em at the range, not in the streets.)

[phatdoughnut]

for the first part highlighted in red, http://www.jhsph.edu/research/center...s_theft_fs.pdf

if a criminal plans on doing a suicide mission, i highly doubt hes going to care if he registers and obtains the gun legally.

These sound like stiffer penalties for committing the crime. Did they ban alcohol? Put regulations on how much you can buy? Swip your ID card everytime you want to purchase alcohol and put you on a list with how much you have purchased? Ask all your personal information before you could purchase alcohol?

yes, much stiffer penalties, which are there to deter you from doing so. alcohol is not banned...theres no limit to how much you can buy. yes, some places are able to swipe your drivers licence and read the magnetic strip on the back to see if its real...clubs do it even..proves if its a fake id or not. if they swipe the card, they dont ask, if you look under the age of 60, expect to have your id ready in hand. if the clerk sees you talking with kids outside the store, odds are the clerk will refuse you service due to you most likely buying beer for minors.(if they see a money transfer)
. im in my late 20's, and i went to a liquor store with my 12 year old female cousin and her 16 year old brother, and i was denied service.

when im saying high powered rifle, im mainly reffering to military spec weapons and assault rifles. (if you wanna keep em fine...use em at the range, not in the streets.)

We don't use them in the streets


Alcohol, cars, whatever are mute points. They are not rights they are privilages that can be taken away and regulated however government officials want.


Telling me what gun's I can and can't have and how much ammo and what mags I can have is like telling me what I can and can't say, when I can say it, who I can say it to, what religion I can practice and when and how often I can practice it.

It is a right, we will keep going on and on and on forever because no one else has a consitution like ours to compare to.

[stewie]

We don't use them in the streets


Alcohol, cars, whatever are mute points. They are not rights they are privilages that can be taken away and regulated however government officials want.


Telling me what gun's I can and can't have and how much ammo and what mags I can have is like telling me what I can and can't say, when I can say it, who I can say it to, what religion I can practice and when and how often I can practice it.

It is a right, we will keep going on and on and on forever because no one else has a consitution like ours to compare to.

so if your a convicted felon, the government has no rights to say that your no longer allowed to posses a firearm because its your right?

im not going to tell you what you can and cant say, but just remember, sometimes its best to watch your mouth around certain people(no...im not directly threatening you im saying if you know a gang member, would you go up to him and start lipping him off and etc? you can only knock on the devils door so many times before he opens and answers)

yes, its a right to own guns and nobody else has a constitution to compare to you...is that a good thing or a bad thing? depends on what country you in when you say it.

i live no more then 20 min from usa...and i visit your country quite a bit...been there more than enough times to have made up my mind about it. when was the last time you visited canada and had first hand experience seeing how another country lives its way and how well its run? and i dont mean a family trip where you stay at an uncles house in a remote town in the mountains, im talking in a majaor populated area and see first hand how people interact with each other to strangers. personally, i believe canada is run better from our health care, policing, schooling system, gun control laws, the diversity of people, and all in all...natural beauty.
but thats a canadians point of view. your living in usa so you'll have a different view naturally.

you say you have a better constitution that can be compared to noone? read the canadian constitution acts, yours may seem better on paper, but go get first hand experience and live in canada for a while

question though, if you had to pick, give up your 2nd ammendment for free health care for you and your family, would you? you'd never pay a hospital bill again..go to your family doctor for free whenever and however often you want..break a leg? no worries, its taken care of.

[phatdoughnut]

so if your a convicted felon, the government has no rights to say that your no longer allowed to posses a firearm because its your right?

im not going to tell you what you can and cant say, but just remember, sometimes its best to watch your mouth around certain people(no...im not directly threatening you im saying if you know a gang member, would you go up to him and start lipping him off and etc? you can only knock on the devils door so many times before he opens and answers)

yes, its a right to own guns and nobody else has a constitution to compare to you...is that a good thing or a bad thing? depends on what country you in when you say it.

i live no more then 20 min from usa...and i visit your country quite a bit...been there more than enough times to have made up my mind about it. when was the last time you visited canada and had first hand experience seeing how another country lives its way and how well its run? and i dont mean a family trip where you stay at an uncles house in a remote town in the mountains, im talking in a majaor populated area and see first hand how people interact with each other to strangers. personally, i believe canada is run better from our health care, policing, schooling system, gun control laws, the diversity of people, and all in all...natural beauty.
but thats a canadians point of view. your living in usa so you'll have a different view naturally.

you say you have a better constitution that can be compared to noone? read the canadian constitution acts, yours may seem better on paper, but go get first hand experience and live in canada for a while

question though, if you had to pick, give up your 2nd ammendment for free health care for you and your family, would you? you'd never pay a hospital bill again..go to your family doctor for free whenever and however often you want..break a leg? no worries, its taken care of.

felons don't have a right to own guns? I don't understand that argument at all.

I would not because I work for what I have and have health insurance. I am not going to foot the bill for even more people to live off the government. It is bad enough as it is.

How much do you guy's pay in taxes? I don't know anything about Canada except that I've been there several times and everyone is really rude to us.


I grew up in Tijuana and return prob once every 2 years, whats your point? People are nice to each other and they don't need guns?

[stewie]

felons don't have a right to own guns? I don't understand that argument at all.

I would not because I work for what I have and have health insurance. I am not going to foot the bill for even more people to live off the government. It is bad enough as it is.

How much do you guy's pay in taxes? I don't know anything about Canada except that I've been there several times and everyone is really rude to us.


I grew up in Tijuana and return prob once every 2 years, whats your point? People are nice to each other and they don't need guns?

From the guy who killed the fire fighters, it said he was a felon who wasn't allowed to possess a firearm.

I work for what I have as well, health care is a nice freebie though.

Last year, property tax was 3k, and I got back 2k from a tax return.


What part of Canada were you in that you found people rude?

In most parts yes, everyone is nice cept for a few bad apples, but those bad apples are the drug dealers and gang members...and even then, all they do is weed out the other gang members and drug dealers. It's not often we ever see a shooting that didn't involve a gang/drug member.

[H311RA151N]

phatdoughnut, maybe its just because your American that they treated you poorly in Canada.

I love Canada, Rush, Helix, The Red Green Show, Hockey, Labatt’s Blue, Trailer Park Boys, pretty much everything Canadian. But from my experience most Canadians don’t like Americans. I have a few ideas as to why but I’m not going to go into detail. It’s not about the stupid Canada/Canadian jokes either.

And it’s not just Canadians its the whole world. Is it safe to say that we are the most hated country in the world? With that being said and what our media focuses on, it’s no wonder. We are no more fucked up than the next country. Our bull shit just comes out more. If people love to hate they are always going to find reasons to hate.

[accord93racer]

stewie,

I don't think you understand that a criminal will get a gun if they want a gun. You showed me statistics proving that criminals steal guns and purchase them illegally.

Here are a few questions I would like you to answer so I can try to understand your side:

Who do you think a ban on "assault weapons" or "high powered guns" or "military style guns" will affect?

What is your definition of each of those three guns/weapons I posted in quotations in the previous question?

Will criminals still be able to find guns if a ban of some kind or other new kinds of legislation is passed?

In your opinion what do you think should be done as far as gun control is concerned?


As far as health care goes, I would rather keep my guns than get free health care. I have heard bad things about free health care in other countries, this is no knock on your Canadian health care just something I have heard from multiple different people who have traveled outside of the US.

[toycar]

After reading a whole bunch of back and fourth, I think it is really clear that people outside of America aren't really familiar with how easy it is to get a gun in America. I also think people that are pro-guns are too stubborn to be open minded to anything other than owning whatever they want.

The "laws" that are being referred to are pretty relaxed in America.



Criminals could care less about getting in trouble here. I think that is part of the reason theres no progress in this conversation. If you guys understood the problem in America, you would understand the answers people are giving you.


Most of the time when a crime is committed, the gun is stolen before hand and ditched afterwards. To own a gun here, is like saying you also have a TV in your living room. At this point it is way to late to try and regulate anything and have any real world effects.


People all over the country get caught up on gun charges all the time. It doesn't change anything. They go serve their 6 months-3 years, and get right back to it when they get out. Prison here grants you things like free health care, a free place to live, an education, networking(by meeting other criminals), a better fitness system than most of us already pay for and quality meals to top it all off.

Prison in America is like a vacation compared to prison in other countries. People here could give a shit about going to prison. Especially if they are already in a criminal mindset. There was a guy recently that was out on furlough for a weekend, and picked up a gun, then proceeded to try to shoot someone and then get shot by the police.

WTF?

Why do you get out on a furlough for the weekend, when you are in prison, in the first place? Unsupervised release, from prison, for the weekend, because you had good behavior?

WTF? No wonder people could care less about getting in trouble in America.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120916/NEWS/120919776


11 times previously in jail or prison, was serving time for being a felon with a gun, known gang member.....

What gives? You guys see what Im saying here? Its too late in America for a reasonable, common sense approach to fixing this.

That nut job that killed the firefighters is a great example of what I am talking about. That piece of shit was going to kill people and do harm regardless.


Two decades in prison taught him NOTHING. He killed his grandma decades ago, and this MOFO was still able to get back into society and get his hands on a gun. It is situations like this, that make the comments in this thread valid. People here are POS's and shit like this fire fighter shit happens all the time. Basically, until you live in America you'll never understand the type of retarded people we have living here.



There is more crime in other parts of the world, but it is generally directed at other members of the criminal element or world. There are bystanders, sure. It happens.

In America, being innocent makes you a target-not a bystander.









As far as actually dealing with the gun issues I think that anyone that is advocating for assault rifles, in almost EVERY circumstance, is being a terd about compromise.


You don't need an assault rifle if you live in an apartment or in the city. I don't care what anyone says. You aren't going to have a team of army style comando's kick in your door and take your Xbox provoking some need for an ar-15.

Im not saying that people should just assume they are safe or stop protecting themselves-its just that in an honest conversation how can anyone really argue that an ar-15 in an apartment for "home defense" is a good idea? If you need 30 rounds to feel safe, you should practice at being a better shot. Nobody NEEDS a 30 round clip, for "home defense"

The city limits should yield different laws than living in the county. The type of weapons permitted in your home, should have SOMETHING to do with who lives there and how close people live around you.




I can't believe how stubborn gun owners are about this topic. I have tons of guns. Like 45+ guns. I personally own several "assault weapons" and they really serve no other purpose than to look at and shoot for fun occasionally. I hunt with guns that do more damage than any assault weapon I own round for round.

My FNFAL is a serious killer as is my 30 .06 and .270.



However, single shot, bolt action vs semi auto 30 round clip? I think the difference is pretty obvious, and people arguing otherwise are doing so because they feel liberated by the fact that they own these weapons in the first place.


Own them for 15+ years, and then tell me how much you have actually used them. I bought my first sks right before the 94 ban.

Yeah, Im old like that.





Tell me this;


Under what circumstance is a teflon tipped bullet needed? Why should civilians be able to get our hands on armor piercing rounds?

Why should it even be legal to sell guns that are so easily modified to go full auto if the gun industry openly acknowledges certain models of guns as problems?


Im all for owning guns. But, I really do think there is huge room for improvement on gun policy. You should be treated differently if you have both guns and kids in your home. It should require continued education, certification or something. It should be LAW that you must provide a gun safe to have both guns and kids in your home.

There are plenty of things that could be done to help with the problem, people need to stop being so fucking stubborn about it.

[wildBill83]

As someone with health problems, I would love free healthcare, but last I checked Canada didn't have to give up their guns for it. In the end though since I pay for insurance out of pocket anyway it would be a wash because my taxes would just go up to pay for everyone elses healthcare that doesn't work...

America needs to shoot the free loaders. These gunmen need to be targeting the healthy that refuse to work or the ones sucking the system dry because they are too lazy to work.

I know a few that I would like to dissapear personally.

I'm going to stop before I go off on a tangent.

My opinion still stands that we don't need to control guns as much as we need to educate morons about guns.

[toycar]

My opinion still stands that we don't need to control guns as much as we need to educate morons about guns.

Completely agree.



However, you can't fix stupid.

So, once education is ruled out entirely the only other option you have is to make laws(regulation) around the stupid people that are going to contribute to the "worst case scenario" that needs to be planned around.


I would gladly give up all of my weapons if just one of those kids was still alive. Personally, I would rather have been shot MYSELF than let that shit happen again. Thats basically where Im at with this. I am an avid gun owner, that is ready for compromise. At this point the idiots have stronger numbers than us responsible people.

I have kids that age range, shit was deep for me.

I personally am ready to change my collective habits if by some chance it could save some little kids life. I dont "need" any of my assault weapons. Owning them as long as I have has taught me that.

I would still be armed, and ready to defend my home and pride. I am not saying that people should give up their right to own a gun. I really do think that there needs to be some sort of approach that forces people to be a little more responsible though. If the powers that be created some law or requirment to own, I would do it. I would jump through those hurdles, even if that meant getting rid of some of my guns.


I dont think anyone is suggesting that we should lose our rights to own guns all together. I do think that it is a valid arguement when people question the need for a 30 round clip or a gun that shoots rounds through houses and shit.

Lets talk common sense for a moment here, not laws and rights.

[accord93racer]

Completely agree.



However, you can't fix stupid.

So, once education is ruled out entirely the only other option you have is to make laws(regulation) around the stupid people that are going to contribute to the "worst case scenario" that needs to be planned around.


I would gladly give up all of my weapons if just one of those kids was still alive. Personally, I would rather have been shot MYSELF than let that shit happen again. Thats basically where Im at with this. I am an avid gun owner, that is ready for compromise. At this point the idiots have stronger numbers than us responsible people.

I have kids that age range, shit was deep for me.

I personally am ready to change my collective habits if by some chance it could save some little kids life. I dont "need" any of my assault weapons. Owning them as long as I have has taught me that.

I would still be armed, and ready to defend my home and pride. I am not saying that people should give up their right to own a gun. I really do think that there needs to be some sort of approach that forces people to be a little more responsible though. If the powers that be created some law or requirment to own, I would do it. I would jump through those hurdles, even if that meant getting rid of some of my guns.


I dont think anyone is suggesting that we should lose our rights to own guns all together. I do think that it is a valid arguement when people question the need for a 30 round clip or a gun that shoots rounds through houses and shit.

Lets talk common sense for a moment here, not laws and rights.

Common sense does not apply to criminals and sociopaths hell bent on committing evil acts.

Almost any gun larger than .22 LR could shoot through a house. I can think of multiple reasons for a 30 round clip and none of those involve combating zombies, crazies, robbers, the government, etc. Shooting competitions and hunting certain animals could definitely require a 30 round clip.

The majority of the policies, laws and education that are being discussed would only affect law abiding citizens who go through the process to own a firearm legally.

I am stubborn about giving up my right to own an AR15 or semi-automatic rifle because there is such a grey area with terms like "assault weapon", "high powered rifle", and "military grade" being thrown around very loosely. Also if the liberal government is able to make citizens give up those guns they will go after all guns. Like the saying goes, "give them an inch and they will take a mile."

[toycar]

Common sense does not apply to criminals and sociopaths hell bent on committing evil acts.

Almost any gun larger than .22 LR could shoot through a house. I can think of multiple reasons for a 30 round clip and none of those involve combating zombies, crazies, robbers, the government, etc. Shooting competitions and hunting certain animals could definitely require a 30 round clip.

The majority of the policies, laws and education that are being discussed would only affect law abiding citizens who go through the process to own a firearm legally.

I am stubborn about giving up my right to own an AR15 or semi-automatic rifle because there is such a grey area with terms like "assault weapon", "high powered rifle", and "military grade" being thrown around very loosely. Also if the liberal government is able to make citizens give up those guns they will go after all guns. Like the saying goes, "give them an inch and they will take a mile."

So, who cares if common sense doesn't apply to them?


Are you suggesting that because they can be wreckless assholes that we all should do the same? There is always going to be POS's in the world. Are you trying to use their failure to justify your own personal ideology? If so, I think that approach is flawed. You cannot let other people define you or your own thoughts. Especially if other peoples wreckless attitude is what is defining your feelings about something. The idea here is to better than those assholes, not equal.

Are you suggesting that a 12g shotty is less effective than an ar-15 in a home defense scenario? Studies suggest otherwise.

Did you really say that hunting certain animals COULD justify using a 30round clip? No high powered season in the country allows that. NONE. There is NO scenario that ANYONE legally is hunting with a 30 round clip. If you need 30 rounds, you shouldn't be hunting. I have hunted most of my life, 25+ years. I have killed the biggest and smallest animals, never a need for 30 damn rounds. Only in competition shooting would it ever be needed. And, it would be easy enough to have a license or permit to own one for "sporting events" if you proved that was what you needed it for.


Its not rocket science guys. Stop over thinking the problem and assuming the worst.


Every gun larger than a .22 does not shoot through a house. Every single 7.62 weapon I own would not only shoot through all of the walls of a house, it would probably go through another house or two as well. A buck shot 12g round wouldn't even leave your living room but would mow any asshole down that happened to break in.

I realize the fear of giving an inch and them taking a mile. However, continuing down the current path has basically given up our rights all together. You think that if shit continues like it has, NOTHING is going to get done? They aren't going to re-write the constitution guys. Nobody is going to take all of your gun rights away. That just won't happen and using that as a base for your defense is pretty weak.


We need to do something that is both productive and offers resolve NOW, before some politician campaigns and wins on the idea that all guns should be illegal. If the problem persists, shit will change either way. Do you want to be a part of that change willingly, or be force fed some new policy?



I agree that the terminology of "assault weapon" is too loosely thrown around. I agree with that. I have an altered 9mm comp pistol that is probably 10x deadlier than an average person with an assault rifle.






I think when its all said and done, people advocating for assault rifles are positioning themselves into a corner on the issue. Leave yourself some options before you so passionately defend your precious ar-15. There are valid points on both sides of the fence here.

People that live in apartments shouldn't go out and buy an assault rifle for home defense. You'll never need a 30 round clip to hunt anything in America. It not only isn't needed, it isn't legal in a single state. Stop arguing silly points that seem valid to you. If you take a step back and look at all the "valid" points you guys are trying to make, its just plain silly.




-"We need weapons to arm the militias to balance out the gov and make sure they dont take over. The constitution says so"


This is hilarious to me. The weapons needed to fend off the gov would be absurd. If the citizens of America could actually arm themselves in a fashion that this was a valid arguement, we would already be in civil war. Complete shenanigans if you ask me. Until we can buy grenades, rocket launchers, missiles other similar grade weapons, this arguement is completely invalid.



-"I need my assault rifle because bad guys already have them"



Who cares? My 12g would kill anyone, regardless of what kind of gun they are holding. Once you are in a position that the gun a criminal is carrying matters, its already too late. Assault rifle in a home defense situation is far from ideal. No arguing that. So, even if the criminal shows up with an AK, you would be better off with a 12g.


-"I need my 30 round clip to hunt with"



no you don't. Saying that only shows me that you actually don't hunt at all. NOBODY uses a 30 round clip to go hunting. NOBODY. Not only is it illegal, its pointless. People that actually take pride in hunting usually want a kill in 1 shot. If 1 shot didn't do it, you certainly don't keep shooting the animal with the same rifle.


You follow it, wrestle it to the ground and cuts its throat. ANYONE that hunts knows this. If you don't cut its throat, you should it one time in the head with your side arm from close range. I personally dont, I keep the horns and shooting in the head could damage the horns. Either way, no real hunter is using a 30 round clip for anything.



-"if the gov restricts what guns we can have, they will take all guns away"




No they wont. They can't. They didn't do anything of the sort under the previous ban. I lived through it, with assault rifles.Unless they are ready to re-write the constitution, it won't happen. The reason they won't do that;There are too many things that are protected that people want changed. IF someone was willing/able to re-write the constitution,everything would be on the table and people care too much about most of what it currently says to allow that to happen. SO, basically its an all or nothing issue with our constitution and how it applies to just about everything.

[wildBill83]

I agree that they can never take all guns away. That "if we give them an inch they will take a mile" argument doesn't hold water and is pure propaganda and fear mongering by the NRA and it's supporters.

I'm a gun ownmer, but I don't feel the NRA has any kind of clear view of actual politics. Just a clouded skewed view to support their ideology.