Contemplating my next car (to replace the Fit.)

[deevergote]

I'm posting this in OT, because I don't expect it to really be in-depth. If it goes that direction, I'll move it to the OA section. Right now, it's just about getting ideas, weighing options, and getting feedback!

Anyway, I'm looking to ditch the Fit. I'm about to replace the clutch (for the third time), and the car is just all beat up. 378,000 miles will do that! For now, the Fit will continue to be the workhorse... but as soon as I find myself in a line of work that no longer requires me to drive 400 miles / 10 hours a day, it's going bye bye. Hopefully for at least a small chunk of change!


SO, I want something else. Initially, the plan was to pick up a decade-old Lotus Elise for somewhere around $15,000... but since we are now no longer getting the Elise brand new in the US, the used prices are going up, not down. I have abandoned the Lotus dream for the time being, sadly.

I'm still wanting that same sort of feel, though. A 2 seat, 4 cylinder, lightweight sports car. Preferably convertible, or with T-tops at least. RWD, manual transmission. Reliable.
I'm looking for it to be no more than $15,000 TOTAL... so I'll be buying used, for sure. I figure the older the car, the more restoration I'll need to do, so the cheaper it'll need to be.

I'm not looking for a project. I'm not looking for something with the intention of modifying it (it may happen, but I'm trying to limit myself to one project car... and that is currently what I have in the CB!)
It doesn't need to be fast. I have fast. Something lightweight and tossable is what I'm interested in. Fuel economy would help as well, since it hurts to mash the pedal in a thirsty car!



Here are the ideas I'm toying with right now:

Toyota MR2 (W30)

Yes, the wussy convertible model that no tuner in his right mind would touch... but lots of midlife crisis men and strong independent middle aged women purchased and meticulously maintained With 138hp, it's not fast... though that's offset a bit by the sub-2200lb curb weight. This would be the closest I can get to the Elise I wanted. MR, lightweight, convertible... same engine, essentially. They also come in a White/Black color combo that I really like (that was to be the Lotus combo, if I could find one.) The only downside is that I can't seem to find a hard top for it, which I would like. I didn't spend much time looking, though!
Before anyone suggests the W20 and W10, I truly love them both... but they're just too old. They're definitely going to be projects, which I don't want. The W30 is already pushing it! It's also extremely hard to find either in my area without a ton of rust, or a bunch of awful modifications.

Mazda Miata

Probably the only case where I'd consider a 90s model... especially since the 1st gen Miata is about as basic as you can get! I'm honestly not sure which I would prefer. 2nd gen is probably at the bottom of the list, but still not out. The Miata is a big draw because I have yet to read a single review that doesn't proclaim how incredibly fun it is. It's simple, reliable, affordable, incredibly popular (so there's LOTS of info for fixing it... and lots of parts if I choose to mod it.) Every generation has a certain visual appeal. Hard tops are available. I think the only real downside to it is that it doesn't feel very special. Miatas are so very common where I live that it lacks a certain "cool" factor. Not that I'm trying to impress anyone with my little sports car... my purpose is to enjoy myself behind the wheel, not show off... but there's a certain excitement that comes with having something a little different. A little special. I've had my CTS-V for 2.5 years now, and I still get that feeling when I get into it. That is probably the only argument I can make against the Miata, though. Well, that, and the fact that the Miata world is very likely like being on Honda-Tech... full of impatient experts and annoying children.

Honda S2000

Of course. This can't NOT be on the list! It's the most powerful car I'm considering. It certainly looks good (though the only hard tops I've seen available aren't very appealing to me.) It suffers from the same "unspecial" feeling that I get from the Miata, though. They're very common around here, and many of them aren't in great shape. Another down side to the S2000 is that, while it's a Honda, it tends to have some pretty hefty repair costs. The S2000 would've been better suited to Acura's lineup than Honda's!
Not sure if the AP1 or AP2 would suit me better. I honestly don't really even know if I'd notice the difference.
Unlike the Miata and MR2, the S2000 is a bit on the porky side. Far closer to 3000lbs than 2000lbs!

BMW Z3

There was a time when I saw these cars as old-lady cars. However, they've been growing on me. The Z3 was essentially BMW's attempt at competing with the Miata. In good shape, they're pretty sharp little cars! Hard top is available, which is nice. Downside is that it's a BMW... and an old one at that. New enough to be rather complicated, old enough to need some restoration. For this reason, it's on the bottom of my list... but still on it.
Like the S2000, the Z3 is also fairly heavy. Heavier, in fact. Probably over 3000lbs with a full tank.

Subaru BRZ

The Scion FR-S was originally on my list, but I sat in both cars at the auto show recently, and I found the BRZ's interior to be far more appealing. So much so that I've decided it's worth the premium. BRZs tend to go for about $2000 more than FR-Ss. The BRZ appeals to me because it's newer, looks quite good, and performs well. Sadly, the roof is fully fixed, and it's still fairly heavy (in the same ballpark as the S2000.)

Mazda RX-8

A definite longshot. Not very reliable, not very fuel efficient, not very lightweight, and not a convertible. It's the only car on the list that tops 3000lbs. Still, the RX-8 has always appealed to me. In stock form, it's still regarded as a formidable handler... and something about a rotary (as impractical as it is) just gets me drooling. Like the BRZ, it's PROBABLY not going to be seriously in the running... but for the time being, I'll let it occupy this part of my daydream!


These are pretty much in order of my current preference, though the BRZ is a bit of a wildcard.

I don't know when I'm going to be buying, or how much cash I'll have at my disposal when I do decide (I may finance, I may just save... or in the event of an older, cheaper car, I may just pay cash and restore piecemeal.)
Right now I'm just trying to get my ideas in order. Any input would be appreciated! If you have any experiences with the cars above, I'd love to hear about it. Any warnings, concerns, or known issues would be welcome knowledge.
Any other suggestions would be welcome as well! As long as they're RWD, convertible/t-top, under 3000lbs, under $15,000, and not a total project (in other words... no MG Midgets or E36 M3 convertibles! )

[Macaqueistrong]

Nissan 300ZX?

Edit: Sorry, not a 4 cylinder.

Neither is a Supra, but.....

[af_1132]

Sure you can't find a hard top replacement for the W30 at Andy's Auto Sport? HAHAHAHA!

Just kidding. Man, if you can find a mint mid 90's 1st gen miata, that would be the most bang for the buck, both at the beginning and down the road. If you want a fun ride, can get a hard top, and can get past that lacking external special factor (it will feel special from the driver's seat, IMO), then that is the definite choice.

[Joey GT-R]

3rd Gen Supra



While certainly the oldest car, it's not terribly hard to find them meticulously maintained. They of course can make gobs of power if you do decide to modify them without too much of an investment. The Supra Community is a Cult, you're bound to find some die-hards in "Joizee" who can help you fix it or do the work for you for a reasonable price. For $15,000 you can find a
"ready to roll/no issues" ride.

Nissan Fairlady (Z33)



At $15,000 you could get one of the later 2009 models with probably some good life left in it. The only issues are the thirsty V6, modifications are expensive, trunk space is almost non-existent, and it doesn't have that "special" feeling.


Audi TT Mk.2



This will probably be towards the top of your budget, and they will come with some miles. Maintenance isn't terrible, but slightly costly. However the engines have fallen into VW Enthusiasts' hands to swap in to GTIs, Golfs, and Jettas so you could likely find a private mechanic who is very reasonable. You don't see them on the road much, so they have an "exclusive" appeal to them. Mods are abundant, for less than $1000 you could probably add an extra 100whp and 10mpg if you liked.

[XCRN]

No to the "Subaru". If it has to pump engine noise into the cabin, then it is not a good car.

The Supra above would be a great idea. Or for $15000 you can find a 240/60/80z that has probably been fully restored and rebuilt recently.

[deevergote]

Nissan 300ZX?

Edit: Sorry, not a 4 cylinder.

Neither is a Supra, but.....

I had a feeling that was going to be among the first suggestions!
Honestly, it's a good one. I think my main reasons for not being interested in it are 1) it's very heavy (heavier than the RX-8 even), 2) it's quite old... 20 years old!, and 3) I don't think I'd be satisfied with anything but the TT model!
A good friend of mine is considering getting a 300ZX-TT, since he can't stomach paying 3x as much for a comparable Supra. Most likely, I'll just drool over his car.
For me, though, 3300lbs, 300hp (for the best of them), and 20 years old is just too much. Though dammit... I DO love a pearl white Z32...

Sure you can't find a hard top replacement for the W30 at Andy's Auto Sport? HAHAHAHA!

Just kidding. Man, if you can find a mint mid 90's 1st gen miata, that would be the most bang for the buck, both at the beginning and down the road. If you want a fun ride, can get a hard top, and can get past that lacking external special factor (it will feel special from the driver's seat, IMO), then that is the definite choice.

Honestly, the 1st gen is probably at the top of the list! I'd just have to be diligent about restoring it properly. Pay perhaps $5000 for one in very good condition, and then put a few thousand more into refreshing it. Suspension refresh, all wear items replaced, engine bay cleaned up. Interior restored (damaged items replaced... maybe even seats re-covered.) Top replaced if necessary. Purchase a hard top. Repaint if necessary.
I've seen some pristine 1st gens rolling around, and they're still beautiful cars when they're in great shape. I think BBS wheels were even an option for them!

[deevergote]

3rd Gen Supra

PICTURE

While certainly the oldest car, it's not terribly hard to find them meticulously maintained. They of course can make gobs of power if you do decide to modify them without too much of an investment. The Supra Community is a Cult, you're bound to find some die-hards in "Joizee" who can help you fix it or do the work for you for a reasonable price. For $15,000 you can find a
"ready to roll/no issues" ride.

Nissan Fairlady (Z33)

PICTURE

At $15,000 you could get one of the later 2009 models with probably some good life left in it. The only issues are the thirsty V6, modifications are expensive, trunk space is almost non-existent, and it doesn't have that "special" feeling.


Audi TT Mk.2

PICTURE

This will probably be towards the top of your budget, and they will come with some miles. Maintenance isn't terrible, but slightly costly. However the engines have fallen into VW Enthusiasts' hands to swap in to GTIs, Golfs, and Jettas so you could likely find a private mechanic who is very reasonable. You don't see them on the road much, so they have an "exclusive" appeal to them. Mods are abundant, for less than $1000 you could probably add an extra 100whp and 10mpg if you liked.

The Supra and the 350z are both incredibly heavy as well. The Supra would certainly be a project, though I suppose I could find one that had been restored recently. Never much cared for the mk3 Supra, though. I could always call on our old buddy Empera for help. I think his Mk3 is pushing over 600hp now!
Still, anything that's well into the 3000lb range is going to feel far too similar to the CTS-V. Sporty, perhaps... but heavy.

The Audi TT is one that I hadn't considered. I wouldn't want the FWD version, but there's an AWD 6 speed manual roadster with 100k miles for sale in NJ right now by a dealer! I'm not sure that I'd be able to get over the TT's relation to the New Beetle... but that's something to throw into the mix. It's also on the heftier side, though. Especially the AWD model. Audi's repair costs are often higher than BMW's, though... especially for an older AWD turbo vehicle. That can be intimidating.

No to the "Subaru". If it has to pump engine noise into the cabin, then it is not a good car.

The Supra above would be a great idea. Or for $15000 you can find a 240/60/80z that has probably been fully restored and rebuilt recently.

That's a thought. I'd have to be very careful in what I pick, though. Restorations can be done right... or they can be halfassed by shadetree mechanics. Sometimes it's possible to polish a turd just enough to sell it!
I don't know how comfortable I'd be paying that much for someone else's project, restoration or not... Hell, I find it difficult to swallow the price of a used NSX (though those can be double my limit for a good one... still... 30 grand for a 25 year old car, regardless of how amazing it is... that hurts!)

Good point on the BRZ (I still can't figure out if it's more Subaru or more Toyota... I always read that it was basically a Subaru primarily funded by Toyota, with Toyota's direct injection system being the only real Toyota-designed bit in it...) Fake engine noise = fail.


Whatever I get will still likely see its share of daily driver duty, though... so it's not going to be a garage queen or Sunday driver.

[owequitit]

I'm posting this in OT, because I don't expect it to really be in-depth. If it goes that direction, I'll move it to the OA section. Right now, it's just about getting ideas, weighing options, and getting feedback!

Anyway, I'm looking to ditch the Fit. I'm about to replace the clutch (for the third time), and the car is just all beat up. 378,000 miles will do that! For now, the Fit will continue to be the workhorse... but as soon as I find myself in a line of work that no longer requires me to drive 400 miles / 10 hours a day, it's going bye bye. Hopefully for at least a small chunk of change!


SO, I want something else. Initially, the plan was to pick up a decade-old Lotus Elise for somewhere around $15,000... but since we are now no longer getting the Elise brand new in the US, the used prices are going up, not down. I have abandoned the Lotus dream for the time being, sadly.

I'm still wanting that same sort of feel, though. A 2 seat, 4 cylinder, lightweight sports car. Preferably convertible, or with T-tops at least. RWD, manual transmission. Reliable.
I'm looking for it to be no more than $15,000 TOTAL... so I'll be buying used, for sure. I figure the older the car, the more restoration I'll need to do, so the cheaper it'll need to be.

I'm not looking for a project. I'm not looking for something with the intention of modifying it (it may happen, but I'm trying to limit myself to one project car... and that is currently what I have in the CB!)
It doesn't need to be fast. I have fast. Something lightweight and tossable is what I'm interested in. Fuel economy would help as well, since it hurts to mash the pedal in a thirsty car!



Here are the ideas I'm toying with right now:

Toyota MR2 (W30)

Yes, the wussy convertible model that no tuner in his right mind would touch... but lots of midlife crisis men and strong independent middle aged women purchased and meticulously maintained With 138hp, it's not fast... though that's offset a bit by the sub-2200lb curb weight. This would be the closest I can get to the Elise I wanted. MR, lightweight, convertible... same engine, essentially. They also come in a White/Black color combo that I really like (that was to be the Lotus combo, if I could find one.) The only downside is that I can't seem to find a hard top for it, which I would like. I didn't spend much time looking, though!
Before anyone suggests the W20 and W10, I truly love them both... but they're just too old. They're definitely going to be projects, which I don't want. The W30 is already pushing it! It's also extremely hard to find either in my area without a ton of rust, or a bunch of awful modifications.

Mazda Miata

Probably the only case where I'd consider a 90s model... especially since the 1st gen Miata is about as basic as you can get! I'm honestly not sure which I would prefer. 2nd gen is probably at the bottom of the list, but still not out. The Miata is a big draw because I have yet to read a single review that doesn't proclaim how incredibly fun it is. It's simple, reliable, affordable, incredibly popular (so there's LOTS of info for fixing it... and lots of parts if I choose to mod it.) Every generation has a certain visual appeal. Hard tops are available. I think the only real downside to it is that it doesn't feel very special. Miatas are so very common where I live that it lacks a certain "cool" factor. Not that I'm trying to impress anyone with my little sports car... my purpose is to enjoy myself behind the wheel, not show off... but there's a certain excitement that comes with having something a little different. A little special. I've had my CTS-V for 2.5 years now, and I still get that feeling when I get into it. That is probably the only argument I can make against the Miata, though. Well, that, and the fact that the Miata world is very likely like being on Honda-Tech... full of impatient experts and annoying children.

Honda S2000

Of course. This can't NOT be on the list! It's the most powerful car I'm considering. It certainly looks good (though the only hard tops I've seen available aren't very appealing to me.) It suffers from the same "unspecial" feeling that I get from the Miata, though. They're very common around here, and many of them aren't in great shape. Another down side to the S2000 is that, while it's a Honda, it tends to have some pretty hefty repair costs. The S2000 would've been better suited to Acura's lineup than Honda's!
Not sure if the AP1 or AP2 would suit me better. I honestly don't really even know if I'd notice the difference.
Unlike the Miata and MR2, the S2000 is a bit on the porky side. Far closer to 3000lbs than 2000lbs!

BMW Z3

There was a time when I saw these cars as old-lady cars. However, they've been growing on me. The Z3 was essentially BMW's attempt at competing with the Miata. In good shape, they're pretty sharp little cars! Hard top is available, which is nice. Downside is that it's a BMW... and an old one at that. New enough to be rather complicated, old enough to need some restoration. For this reason, it's on the bottom of my list... but still on it.
Like the S2000, the Z3 is also fairly heavy. Heavier, in fact. Probably over 3000lbs with a full tank.

Subaru BRZ

The Scion FR-S was originally on my list, but I sat in both cars at the auto show recently, and I found the BRZ's interior to be far more appealing. So much so that I've decided it's worth the premium. BRZs tend to go for about $2000 more than FR-Ss. The BRZ appeals to me because it's newer, looks quite good, and performs well. Sadly, the roof is fully fixed, and it's still fairly heavy (in the same ballpark as the S2000.)

Mazda RX-8

A definite longshot. Not very reliable, not very fuel efficient, not very lightweight, and not a convertible. It's the only car on the list that tops 3000lbs. Still, the RX-8 has always appealed to me. In stock form, it's still regarded as a formidable handler... and something about a rotary (as impractical as it is) just gets me drooling. Like the BRZ, it's PROBABLY not going to be seriously in the running... but for the time being, I'll let it occupy this part of my daydream!


These are pretty much in order of my current preference, though the BRZ is a bit of a wildcard.

I don't know when I'm going to be buying, or how much cash I'll have at my disposal when I do decide (I may finance, I may just save... or in the event of an older, cheaper car, I may just pay cash and restore piecemeal.)
Right now I'm just trying to get my ideas in order. Any input would be appreciated! If you have any experiences with the cars above, I'd love to hear about it. Any warnings, concerns, or known issues would be welcome knowledge.
Any other suggestions would be welcome as well! As long as they're RWD, convertible/t-top, under 3000lbs, under $15,000, and not a total project (in other words... no MG Midgets or E36 M3 convertibles! )

S2000, without question. The ONLY one on that list that isn't "porky" is the Miata. They are fun, but relatively old (for the ones you posted) at this point, and sort of underpowered. Not that cars like this need to be powerful, but the S2K gives up nothing on the handling response, has that glorious backroad fury, is perfectly at home on a commute, and won't break, or break the bank. Plus, it is one of those cars that if you pick one up now in good condition and hang onto it, you simply won't regret it down the road.

I would be torn between an AP1 and AP2 personally. The drivetrain character in the AP1 is simply untouchable outside of a Ferrari F430 or 458 Italia, and the chassis is razor sharp. On the other hand, the AP2 is more livable, less likely to end up wrecked because the rear end snapped out, and actually looks better with the larger wheels and upgraded fascias.

[deevergote]

That's pretty much what I figured with the S2000, and those are basically my reasons for having it so high on my list. I didn't know there was such a difference between the models! I'm definitely going to drive the S2000, MR2, and Miata(s) to really make up my mind. Chances are, it's going to come down to one of those three. I think the main thing against the S2000 (on paper, anyway) is the weight. The lightest S2000 is more than 500lbs heavier than the MR2 or early Miata. I'd need to get behind the wheel to truly decide if that matters or not, however.



The MR2 is actually the 2nd lightest car on the list, if the 1st gen Miata is taken into consideration. It only weighs 2200lbs (2nd and 3rd gen Miatas are heavier by 100-300lbs at least.)

[Macaqueistrong]

Fiero GT!




I'm serious..........

[deevergote]

I DO love the Fiero!

[Macaqueistrong]

Porsche Boxster?

Maybe a 994 turbo or something.

[deevergote]

I considered the Boxster previously, but read some serious horror stories about the older ones (which is what i would be able to afford comfortably.) Also, my girlfriend would object... she's German and loves all things German... except the Boxster.

The 968 was something I considered... but they're old, and fixing Porsches isn't cheap. The lot around the block from me has (or recently had) a convertible one in fantastic shape. Like this, but black:

Not sure what they wanted for it. It's another 3000lb car, though. The Boxster is around 2800, which isn't bad, considering it's got a 6 cylinder engine (weighing in about the same as the S2000.)

[lucifer1]

I think the best one on your list is the mr-s. I always loved those with the veilside kit on them.

The z3 would be next . Bmw requires quite a bit of maintenance but most parts are not so badly priced. Engine is pretty easy to work on. Much easier than I originally thought.

My Honda bias would say s2000 hounds down no other choice. Reality is I don't think they are worth the money or hype. Plus half of the ones I see nowadays are riced out stance cars.

[Macaqueistrong]

Okay last one........




Convertible 240SX S13.