Can someone please remind me why the CB7tuner scene matters anymore?

[accordztech]

There's a difference between a lack of composition and spelling skills... and pure laziness. There are some people on here that speak other languages. They can be difficult to understand, but there's a reason for it. Then there are those people that type as if they're just banging their foreheads on the keyboard.

Bro tell me about it. I have to read their posts 20 times to understand it. I admit im not the best in my skills at times, but I don't want to make myself look like an idiot.

There is a LOT of laziness on facebook. Many people IMO lack the get down and dirty and use common sense. People on there ask for help, and when you give them a detailed way of doing it, they do the easiest thing (which is what the next guy posts) "check your timing" or something else stupid that has no relation to the problem. Stupid retards.

Then 3 weeks later they say thanks because I was right on the money. HAHA. It pisses me off. But whatever...I don't let it get to me. If they don't want to read, then screw them.

[accordztech]

And this thread is about MY opinion... and how I feel the CB7 scene is all about cheapass morons that would rather slap shitty parts on their shitty cars regardless of safety or reliability. It's disheartening, and it's not how things used to be.

I'm very close to simply washing my hands of this lame-ass scene.

I don't even have an accord myself anymore. My brother has one and my dad, but I drive a minivan. Do you know why I stay? To show others that I KNOW what im talking about, and to show them the right way. If I can show 4 people the right way of doing things, or the correct way to think then I bet they will always do better and understand more. Its how I started....its how I learned.

That's really it. It makes me feel good. And I don't know everything, I can tell you that. People on here still can teach me a thing or 2, or re-teach sometimes.

[SanJoCaF22DrAcc]

My 2 cents

I absolutely love this forum and I don't hesitate for a second to bring it up when meeting other 4th gen Accord owners. The Facebook crowd are mostly a bunch of bandwagoners and posers that most likely don't know or care for what it takes to build a great car. I hop on there to look through things but rarely comment. I find myself weeding through those posts to find legitamtely enthusiasts. The only thing that I think is better is the ease of posting pictures.

It's kind of a hassle to post images here but at the same time that process also filters out many of the unwanted.

CB7Tuner is a great forum for true enthusiasts. All the genuine help that I have received here is greatly appreciated. All the friends I have made through this forum is truely priceless. Inspiration is everywhere. I still stop by here on the daily with the anticipation of seeing some updates and applauding others progress.

All in all I am thankful cb7tuner is here and for members like all those that have commented on this topic with a wealth of knowledge.

[toycar]

I think there are many layers to the problem.


I haven't commented on this because I wanted to see what everyone else said and see if you guys see it the way I do. And you don't.






I sold my CB because it was rusted out and shit compared to the awesome cars I have seen on here. I hunted for a clean CB withing 500miles of my house for a while pretty passionately. I started building an engine for it, accumulated all of my parts etc etc. Still haven't found a decent starting point.


I guess what I am saying is that there is such a distance between "respectable rides" and "typical rust belt accords" that I for one did not feel comfortable putting a MRT together illustrating my fabrication and building skills-paired with a rusted out shitbox.


I don't do facebook, so I cannot comment on that issue in particular. But on the forum there was an era(that has since gotten better) of constant negative slander from everyone about everything. I think this drove down your core interest in the people that fall into a category like me.


If you were on the fence before, that era pushed you to the other side. That aspect of "search noob" and "let the rules rule all" created a pretty crappy vibe in some of the threads from people more or less adding nothing to the situation other than stupid comments about "search" or something to that affect.


Facebook will fail eventually, but, it is the path of least resistance at this point. So, people are going to gravitate to that. They can be stupid there, act however they want, bullshit about whatever, its all good. Here, people will call you on it if you are full of shit.

That either needs to change, or you need to remind yourself of that cause/affect when you wonder what is going on with traffic on the site. The situation isn't very pleasurable some times for some people, but the overall intent should be for everyone to have a great experience. It should. Of course there will be stupid shit.


Thats just part of the gig. Traffic is down here to a crawl, basically because its not a welcoming situation for new people. On FB, it sounds like people get away with whatever. So, thats what you are up against. Rules or free rule? Of course, on the net, free rule pwns authority.


This issue, paired with the lack of involvement from people actually doing stuff = nothing really going on other than Off Topic. And, even that has slowed way down. Nobody really makes new threads anymore, and the same 10-15 people are the only ones posting.


Not sure how to fix it deeve. But, these are the issues I see present. I think the enviornment needs to feel more welcoming and people need to be able to get away with shit-or they will just go elsewhere. Being OK with that, is what has led us to here.


Something along those lines needs to change. This is probably why forums get so big and either fail, or get corporate owned and professionally managed and exist.

[deevergote]

You make good points, Justin.

I agree that things have gotten a bit better on here in terms of the negativity. I think at the time we last spoke of that, I was in a pretty lousy place in my life personally... and it bled onto the site. Given my status and presence (seeing as I probably post twice as much as anyone else), my own attitude can have a very large effect on the overall attitude of the site.

We've eased up on the noobs lately, and the mods and I have begun chastising those that are rude to new members. Aside from the 30 post requirement, it's more welcoming than before (aside from the occasional member that announces "I'm just posting to get to 30"... then they get hassled a bit.)
Still, I know that we've earned a bit of a reputation for having essentially what is an elitist hazing phase in order to join this site. 90% of our issues, however, are limited to the Beginner Forums. I very rarely have to speak a harsh word to a member elsewhere in the site, and banning for anything but the occasional stupid racial slur is pretty rare.


You're absolutely right about Facebook being the path of least resistance. It illustrates all the idiocy that we've worked so hard to eliminate on this forum. I suppose in that elimination, we've also alienated/eliminated those members or potential members in the process. Aside from the fact that it's caused a slowdown in this site's activity, I don't really see that as a bad thing. If this site is too harsh an environment for the rude, the lazy, and the disrespectful, then I see it as a success!

The other sites that have become corporately owned in order to survive have essentially turned into communities that are very similar to the CB7tuner Facebook group. A bunch of idiots yelling at each other, giving terrible advice, and typing with their foreheads. Path of least resistance. Anyone can join in the fray. I get regular offers from such companies, and I turn them away each and every time.



It's not so much the slowdown of the forum that has been bothering me. I know that's going to happen, and it's happened before. Traffic here rises and falls regularly. It seems to go in waves.

What bothers me is the quality of the projects, and the quality of the people doing them. What bothers me is the fact that what seems to be the majority (at least on Facebook) are people that are outright bragging about their rusted-out shitboxes riding on ebay coilover sleeves and poorly-fitting wheels.
Before, anyone with a rusted out shitbox admitted that their car needed work. They knew they were starting from less than 0, and that they had lots of things to work on. Their first posts were often "where can I find replacement rear quarter panels?", or "how do I install new bushings to replace my worn ones?"
Now, their first posts (perhaps more on Facebook than on here) are "luk @ mah baybee!!! i just bot her n im droppin her on coilvers dis weendn!!!", while posting pictures of a car that has 4 different colored body panels, rust big enough to stick your fist through, and tires that are showing belts. Oh, and don't forget the obligatory photograph of the speedometer reading 100mph! (this is pretty much all Facebook stuff that I'm recalling from the past week... )

CB7tuner.com may be slowing down, but this site still represents what is RIGHT with the scene. All the people that have posted here are the types of people (often with the types of cars) that make this scene something to be proud of. Not all of the cars are perfect. Most of them aren't, in fact... but the attitude in which they are modified and discussed is considerably different.



I suppose I'm used to a scene that's based on cars that actually have some value, and that are worth modifying properly. Perhaps my disappointment in the decline of quality is simply due to my unwillingness to accept that $500 cars attract a different breed.
The only thing I can cling to is that we'll eventually see a resurgence of serious, dedicated enthusiasts that want to restore and modify the platform out of their love for it... not out of it's ready availability. Much like the 3rd generation Accords, or the 4th generation Civics (I rarely see old Civics on the road that aren't in decent shape... the beaters are all junkyard residents now.)
Maybe it's not the scene that should change. Maybe it's my attitude. Or my presence in it.

[ninethreecoupe]

Part of what attracts me to these cars is that you can take a cheap car and turn it into something that can compete with any of the popular cars. The fact that there's such a small aftermarket and not that much publicity for these cars makes it all the sweeter when a really well done one pops up. I feel photographers like stickydiljoe help keep the chassis alive by posting them in their forum.

I agree with pretty much all the shit box issues except maybe the different colored panels. While it may look disorganized whether by design or trying to fix rust issues I see it as them at least taking the time to go and get these parts to fix issues and get their body straight. There's no excuse for the unsafe mods regardless of how much you want your car to be "accepted".

The one thing that just irritates me is while maybe people should be nicer, bluntness and authority outs needed when noobs are asking the same basic questions that sometimes were even asked lower on the page! It's insanity. I think I asked one "where can I find" question when I was new and then later was like shit nobody will answer that, and nobody did. When the rules are plastered art the top of the page it just shows the amount of laziness or carelessness of people when they don't search or ask generic. Some people learn and utilize the site the way it was intended, those that don't go on to get their panties in a wad because they aren't catered to and go complain about it on other public forums. There's just no patience or discipline anymore.

[toycar]

You make good points, Justin.

I agree that things have gotten a bit better on here in terms of the negativity. I think at the time we last spoke of that, I was in a pretty lousy place in my life personally... and it bled onto the site. Given my status and presence (seeing as I probably post twice as much as anyone else), my own attitude can have a very large effect on the overall attitude of the site.

We've eased up on the noobs lately, and the mods and I have begun chastising those that are rude to new members. Aside from the 30 post requirement, it's more welcoming than before (aside from the occasional member that announces "I'm just posting to get to 30"... then they get hassled a bit.)
Still, I know that we've earned a bit of a reputation for having essentially what is an elitist hazing phase in order to join this site. 90% of our issues, however, are limited to the Beginner Forums. I very rarely have to speak a harsh word to a member elsewhere in the site, and banning for anything but the occasional stupid racial slur is pretty rare.


You're absolutely right about Facebook being the path of least resistance. It illustrates all the idiocy that we've worked so hard to eliminate on this forum. I suppose in that elimination, we've also alienated/eliminated those members or potential members in the process. Aside from the fact that it's caused a slowdown in this site's activity, I don't really see that as a bad thing. If this site is too harsh an environment for the rude, the lazy, and the disrespectful, then I see it as a success!

While I agree with the success, I want to emphasize the need for bullshit. Look at Geoffm and when he was banned vs his presence now. I like the guy and have had a bunch of good interactions with him. Just as an example.

In my job we have a saying,"If you are not losing money, you are not investing enough" and that kind of applies here. If you are not dealing with these douchecanoes regularly, that means they are going elsewhere. The long term affects of "going elsewhere" hurts our cause. You are right, in the past people had shitboxes and they did own it and do what was right before modding. I agree with this.


Thing is, now there is a venue to be a slacker and a "non-enthusiast" and THAT is what you are competing with. Sure, nobody wants to compare this to altezzas but lets just do that for a second. How many true car guys had altezzas? A few. A bunch. Shit, they were cool for a while.


But then, every Tom, Dick and Harry had a set and eventually they became ricer. Too common. That alienation has always seperated "true car guys" from "ricers"


We identify over time whats getting out of hand and try to stay ahead of the curve. Facebook has tapped into something different all together. They recognize that people don't want to turn a wrench or do things right but still want to fit into the "scene". All Facebook cares about is giving those people a place to feel like they fit in. And, they have done that. Now, WE ARE THE ODD MAN OUT. There are way more people wanting to put rims and a stereo in a car and call it good than are interested in standalone fuel management, piston deck heights, building engines or understanding the function of a suspension part before replacing it with the cheapest option on the net.


Its always been easier to half ass something, now there is a site that half assed people can gather and all make themselves feel better about being half assed. Whatever. Half of those people will fuck something up and decide not to be half assed anymore at some point.


And that is the opportunity lost when we run off all the shenanigans right away. People grow and learn by observing mature members here. You deserve credit on that man, because wether you realize it or not your standards for this place have equated to people understanding there is a standard for your craft and the need to do things right.



Again, all FB cares about is how many people frequent the place. They don't give a shit about accidents caused by Hellaflushdopeassrides. FB is a social site, not a car site but you are now competing with them for members. And people want to be halfassed, so they will. Some of those halfassed people could have spent the same time here and learned a few things. Who's loss is that? Who is really suffering from that decision, you(us) or them? That is a trick question, and if you think about it you'll see where we all lose by them going elsewhere.

The other sites that have become corporately owned in order to survive have essentially turned into communities that are very similar to the CB7tuner Facebook group. A bunch of idiots yelling at each other, giving terrible advice, and typing with their foreheads. Path of least resistance. Anyone can join in the fray. I get regular offers from such companies, and I turn them away each and every time.

And that is where credit is do. This place would suck balls without you and your decisions. Just realize that your own expectations are both to give credit to and to blame for the outcome. You have made the right decision in managing this place, its awesome. However, you are at a crossroads being forced by someone elses hand by being forced to compete with "hits", "marketing" and "corporate america" ideaology being applied to something like building cars. Your competition isn't playing by the rules anymore is what I am saying, and now you have no new members making it out of the beginner section happy because of their expectations based on the rules of other forums/sites. You are not forcing it, but you are being forced to deal with it. Its only unreasonable to them, because nobody else cares.

It's not so much the slowdown of the forum that has been bothering me. I know that's going to happen, and it's happened before. Traffic here rises and falls regularly. It seems to go in waves.

What bothers me is the quality of the projects, and the quality of the people doing them. What bothers me is the fact that what seems to be the majority (at least on Facebook) are people that are outright bragging about their rusted-out shitboxes riding on ebay coilover sleeves and poorly-fitting wheels.
Before, anyone with a rusted out shitbox admitted that their car needed work. They knew they were starting from less than 0, and that they had lots of things to work on. Their first posts were often "where can I find replacement rear quarter panels?", or "how do I install new bushings to replace my worn ones?"
Now, their first posts (perhaps more on Facebook than on here) are "luk @ mah baybee!!! i just bot her n im droppin her on coilvers dis weendn!!!", while posting pictures of a car that has 4 different colored body panels, rust big enough to stick your fist through, and tires that are showing belts. Oh, and don't forget the obligatory photograph of the speedometer reading 100mph! (this is pretty much all Facebook stuff that I'm recalling from the past week... )

Yeah thats got to be frustrating. I compare it to "can I boost on stock internals" or the like though. I hate to keep beating the dead horse, but we all liked altezzas on one car or another at least once. Most of us did anyways. We all had to learn, and most of these guys(unfortunately) aren't going to listen about quality parts until they have a ball joint break at 45mph.


The attitude that comes with these people is just a reflection of what is being tolerated by the corporate money machine taking over the interet. All they care about is traffic because that = money. Who cares about everything else right? I mean, thats the way it seems to me anyways. Honda-Tech is a great source for information, but terrible to read the posts. Why? Coporate crap doesn't give a single ounce of shit about the content of the posts, they are interested in people like me that give them hits on their site after a google search and offer foot traffic that = more money for their advertising space.

So, the more the merrier and whatever goes.

CB7tuner.com may be slowing down, but this site still represents what is RIGHT with the scene. All the people that have posted here are the types of people (often with the types of cars) that make this scene something to be proud of. Not all of the cars are perfect. Most of them aren't, in fact... but the attitude in which they are modified and discussed is considerably different.



I suppose I'm used to a scene that's based on cars that actually have some value, and that are worth modifying properly. Perhaps my disappointment in the decline of quality is simply due to my unwillingness to accept that $500 cars attract a different breed.

The only thing I can cling to is that we'll eventually see a resurgence of serious, dedicated enthusiasts that want to restore and modify the platform out of their love for it... not out of it's ready availability. Much like the 3rd generation Accords, or the 4th generation Civics (I rarely see old Civics on the road that aren't in decent shape... the beaters are all junkyard residents now.)
Maybe it's not the scene that should change. Maybe it's my attitude. Or my presence in it.

In my opinion you are 100% right in your feelings with whats going on. You are observing a change in the way things are percieved, and you care passionately about them so it probably feels personal. For every 1 guy that does shit right, it does seem like there are 20 others wanting to do it wrong. This is what you are working with though, it is not a direct result of your doing. What you are observing in behavior reflects on what has become acceptable in the "scene".


10 years ago it wasn't just this forum that was managed correctly and held to a standard. Nowadays, forums are just a stepping stone for tech savvy people trying to become the next Steve Jobs. Most of the people running them aren't even interested in cars. Its all about foot traffic and dollars.


Seriously.



So I think that in time you will hold the one part of the puzzle that nobody else has. You'll just have to be patient to get there. Keeping your standards like they are and holding people accountable may create an elitist feeling, and maybe you can evaluate making some minor changes to help with that.


All in all though this place has been held together on YOUR EFFORTS AND YOUR STANDARDS so make sure you give a little credit when it is due as well. Being the boss is hard, and it sounds like you are dealing with a changing landscape that has got you questioning your own feelings.


Don't do that. Don't question yourself. You got the forum this far. Obviously, you are doing things right.



One thing worth mentioning;

When you get a new member that IS QUALITY, THEY STICK AROUND RIGHT?








Those people need a place to go too and we all notice that THIS place is where its at. And thats what this place needs to be about. Quality information, professional atmosphere, answers when you need them, a place to vent when needed, and of course a direct channel for world star hip hop for Sparkle so we all have something to laugh at.











For what its worth, this is still the only forum I BS on and its still a great experience for me.


Thank you for that

[MrTShoff]

I think the scene is still alive and well in peoples heads but theres alot of people I know (including me) who just cant afford the stuff so progress is brutally slow (it took me almost a year to get my suspension done and I still need to buy bushings). Cheap things are just seen as an easy way out which is why youll find that on facebook more. The social media scene is alot easier to be involved with in my opinion than a forum dedicated to one thing. I love my car but its not a civic so deals are harder to come by as well. There's alot of variables as to why we have a bad spot in the scene at the moment but alot of it comes to expense and ease of finding parts. This site is important to me so it would be terrible to see it lose another core member but I understand. Sometimes you just get discouraged and want to pursue other things. I dont know you Deev but I can relate

[deevergote]

Thanks man. That actually puts things into a very good perspective for me.
I don't mind the "idiots", as we were all idiots at some point. My very first post on a forum was asking if you could turn a turbo off!

At the moment, I think I'm most disheartened by the focus on things that make these cars dangerous and unreliable.
If someone wants to boost their 20 year old stock engine, a number of asshats will say it's a good idea. When that engine blows, the owner will say "this car sucks", send it to the junkyard, and never return to the enthusiast sites/groups/etc... to report their failings. In that way, we have a neverending cycle of guys who haven't blown up yet telling people that it's a good idea. Only the ones that don't know any better remain around to give advice. Those that learned from experience aren't there to share it, because they learned by halfassing, rather than actually learning!

The same goes for suspension, only that's even worse. Not only will it likely wreck the car when it breaks, but it could put someone's life at risk. That risk is not only to the driver, but to any passengers and bystanders as well.
I am adamant about squashing any unsafe suspension discussion on this forum because I don't want ANY of my members getting such dangerous ides from these pages. Seeing as the Facebook group isn't really "official" (I didn't create it, and I only run it because someone put me in charge... and someone has to do it, right?) It's not "my" page, and they're not "my" people. Still, I have a difficult time watching such information get passed around!

The resistance to education is something that has always bothered me about online car enthusiasts (and offline as well, I suppose...) When someone asks a question about something, and they ignore all responses that don't say what they want to hear. When asking about boosting a stock block, they'll ignore the 20 people that say forged internals are all but necessary, and latch onto the one person that says it'll be fine. It's always been at a certain level on here... but on the Facebook group, the people that actually know what they're talking about are actually insulted and attacked for trying to share their knowledge.

Altezzas, poorly fitting body kits, ugly wheels (that fit), obnoxious wings... these things are all the "rice" of the past. While laughable, they don't usually make the car unreliable or unsafe. It seems that the "ricer" trends have progressed beyond those aesthetic mods, and onto the areas that are truly detrimental to the vehicle, and potentially the driver. I think that's where I draw the line. When a "matter of taste" turns into something more serious.

[deevergote]

I think the scene is still alive and well in peoples heads but theres alot of people I know (including me) who just cant afford the stuff so progress is brutally slow (it took me almost a year to get my suspension done and I still need to buy bushings). Cheap things are just seen as an easy way out which is why youll find that on facebook more. The social media scene is alot easier to be involved with in my opinion than a forum dedicated to one thing. I love my car but its not a civic so deals are harder to come by as well. There's alot of variables as to why we have a bad spot in the scene at the moment but alot of it comes to expense and ease of finding parts. This site is important to me so it would be terrible to see it lose another core member but I understand. Sometimes you just get discouraged and want to pursue other things. I dont know you Deev but I can relate

That's the sort of mentality that is lacking these days. "Progress is slow" is a term you don't often hear. You see lots of "I don't have much money" excuses, but they're always in defense of buying crap parts. Very few people, it seems, are willing to wait and save for quality parts (doesn't have to be top quality... just decent enough to be safe, reliable, and effective for the owner's intended use). They just want all the mods, right now.

It's a shame that the majority of aftermarket parts for our cars tend to be low-end garbage. A set of coilover sleeves can be purchased for $50. I bet I could contact someone in China and pick up a lot of 100 sets of coilover sleeves for $1000.

[bobbycos]

Something I noticed about this thread is that it is a better discussion than fb could ever be

The posts are more than 140 characters and are well thought y.

Even the noobs that post in this thread are doing it intelligently

[deevergote]

Indeed. I'd venture to say that the majority of regular posters on here are capable of intelligent conversation. I've actually had people thank me in the past for slapping them around a bit, encouraging them to type intelligently.

I guess it's something I got from my old highschool music teacher... if people here learn nothing about cars, but they learn something valuable about life (such as how to show respect to others, how to earn respect yourself, or how to communicate like a mature adult when typing), then I've succeeded. Some people get it. Not all. Probably not most... but some. And that's something.

[HenRoc]

I remember awhile back (at least a month or two ago ) I got shit because my car wasn't 'slammed' according to one member of the FB page. Deev actually stepped up and vouched for me.

I agree that people who ball on a budget 'dangerously shouldn't even be allowed to wrench. The horrible mods, the advice that gets given really mortifies me.

There's one guy who seems to post on the regular just asking away at questions that can be easily found. (I really think he just trolls) And I've got to extreme lengths to provide links and what ever else I can find to this site..and yet he still posts away.

It's annoying but I always fear that the Accord crowd is becoming what the Civic crowd used to be like.

[deevergote]

I think the Accord's limited aftermarket and lesser popularity among enthusiasts actually worked in our favor. The Civic crowd likely had the flood of cheapie aftermarket junk long before we did (and likely in greater volume.) Due to the popularity of the cars, the flood of idiot enthusiasts was likely greater as well. As a smaller group that often chose to modify a lesser-loved platform, with options that required more thought than others, we were forced to think more carefully about our choices.

Now, our cars are older. It's probably easier to find a cheap unmodified CB7 than it is a Civic of a similar vintage. To people just entering the Honda tuning scene, the CB7 might seem a good deal more "different" than the overdone Civics that they likely grew up with. (keeping in mind that the young tuners today were still young children when the first F&F movie came out!)

Our crowd is becoming the Civic crowd now. Our cars are cheap and "different".

[dj_ender]

I agree that people who ball on a budget 'dangerously shouldn't even be allowed to wrench.

Made me think of this meme: