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Raf99 : 1993 Accord EX

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    Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
    No. it dies in 5-6 days with a 30amp drain on it.
    Had a Eureka moment to the source of your battery drain (and probably explains mine now that I think about it).... *drum-rolls*.... it's your Alternator...

    If a Diode goes bad in it, can cause a parasitic drain. Maybe your system is too much for the poor alternator? I know when I was cleaning under the hood a few months ago, noticed the windings on my alternator had discoloration (indicating they are getting super hot, which is a side-effect of demanding too much power through them [seen it happen to brushless motors demanding more current than their windings could handle in the FPV hobby]), but it wasn't until I read a post on another site (Piloteers) that gave me this revelation (and potentially explains why it can drain my battery down to nothing in 2-3 days just sitting).
    Last edited by cloudasc; 09-23-2020, 06:34 PM.
    PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

    Comment


      Hmmm so how do I test for this? Wouldn't I see this in my parasitic draw test?

      Comment


        Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
        Hmmm so how do I test for this? Wouldn't I see this in my parasitic draw test?
        Source: https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Alternator-Problems-and-Automotive-Charging-System-Tests#:~:text=Usually%2C%20a%20bad%20alternator%20 diode,(alternating%20current)%20voltage%20scale.
        =====================
        Usually, a bad alternator diode will cause your headlights or instrument panel lights to flicker or dim and, sometimes, drain battery power overnight, or in minutes.

        * To check for a possible bad alternator diode, switch your voltmeter to a low setting on the AC (alternating current) voltage scale.
        * With the engine running, touch the meter probes to the battery terminals.
        * Your voltmeter should read 0 AC volts.

        Any amount of AC voltage would indicate a bad diode, so you'll need to replace the alternator.
        ---------------------------------------

        Here is a video that explains why, and also explains how to test an alternator on the bench:
        Last edited by cloudasc; 09-24-2020, 01:38 PM.
        PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

        Comment


          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
          Source: https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Alternator-Problems-and-Automotive-Charging-System-Tests#:~:text=Usually%2C%20a%20bad%20alternator%20 diode,(alternating%20current)%20voltage%20scale.
          =====================
          Usually, a bad alternator diode will cause your headlights or instrument panel lights to flicker or dim and, sometimes, drain battery power overnight, or in minutes.

          * To check for a possible bad alternator diode, switch your voltmeter to a low setting on the AC (alternating current) voltage scale.
          * With the engine running, touch the meter probes to the battery terminals.
          * Your voltmeter should read 0 AC volts.

          Any amount of AC voltage would indicate a bad diode, so you'll need to replace the alternator.
          ---------------------------------------

          Here is a video that explains why, and also explains how to test an alternator on the bench:

          Hey, I appreciate it. My headlights, stereo, anything never dim. I did his test and I got a reading no matter what way I had the diodes. Car was off and battery voltage cut for days. I do understand what he's doing here. He's just measuring the resistance across the diodes in the alternator. He is correct. My measurements floated around a lot though vs his -0.5.

          Ahh Edit: My floating around #s were the meter trying to auto range.
          Last edited by Raf99; 09-24-2020, 06:05 PM.

          Comment


            Well....... I think I know the answer, but I'll let ya'll take a guess.

            Issues is: Excessive oil in the catch can. Really excessive. More than 1 cup if I drive 50km.

            Tests came back negative today for what I thought the problem was. Valve cover looks good inside, plugs look fine, same oil pressure, no other symptoms.



            Comment


              What's the difference between these compression numbers and the 100-120 you posted earlier? Any idea of the condition of your valve seals?
              90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
              07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
              07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
              08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
              LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
              Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

              Comment


                Originally posted by fleetw00d View Post
                What's the difference between these compression numbers and the 100-120 you posted earlier? Any idea of the condition of your valve seals?
                Warm vs. cold. (well... very warm vs. very cold). I've been reading for days now and i have no answers. My tuner has no answers, and online has no answers. How is it that i get the issues no-one has answers to

                Now it fills up with out going into boost, so something is terribly wrong I think. I could drain it back to the block but that should not be needed. Read about so many others having the same issue. Oil level is fine, everything is fine, but catch can is filling up and spilling over. Obvious excessive crank case pressure, just not sure why. Took the valve cover off last night to see if any of the cam retaining bolts were loose, nope. IE: if a bolt was lose oil would make it's way out of there vs. going through the cam rail / passages.

                I think I'm going to remove the timing belt and take a look at the oil orifice on the head, although I don't know what I'm looking for. It's the passage to allow oil to the head and currently it seems whatever restriction it had prior is no longer there. OR vacuum is drawing the oil up.

                ya..... i'm lost here.....







                Comment


                  I'll ask about valve seals again. The compression and leak down results are with the valves closed, so those tests don't tell you anything about the condition of the valve seals. Similar to the discussion earlier about blow-by, an NA engine is more likely to pull oil into the intake past a bad intake valve seal because the intake pressure is lower than the crankcase pressure. With a turbo, the intake pressure (and exhaust pressure) will normally be higher than crankcase pressure, so air will pushed past these seals into the crankcase. This flow direction would also tend to keep oil from leaking past the seals into the intake, so you are less likely to have an oil burning problem (again, similar to the blow-by discussion), but you would have excessive air flow into the crankcase to carry oil mist to the catch can.

                  Maybe figure out a way to pressurize the intake (up to boost levels) with the valve cover off and see/feel/listen for air coming past the intake valve seals. Same thing for exhaust. A preliminary test might be to try to measure the crankcase pressure while the engine is running. I have one of the hand pumped vacuum pumps for bleeding brakes; it can also be used as a pump, so the gage goes both ways (vacuum and pressure). T the gage into a line off the valve cover.
                  Last edited by Fleetw00d; 09-26-2020, 08:56 AM.
                  90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                  07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                  07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                  08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                  LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                  Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                  Comment


                    Ya. i can test for this. Valves closed should do the trick. Just have to figure out a way to pressurize it.

                    Comment


                      I don't think there is a crank position at which all the valves would be closed, so there may be leakage into/across the cylinders if you're pressurizing the intake or exhaust, so it may require some flow to generate pressure. I suppose you could cap off the exhaust at the same time you pressurize the intake.

                      As for trying to measure the crankcase pressure while running, I guess I have no idea what pressure in the crankcase would be considered too high. I suppose I could measure my F22A6 for reference, but a sorta stock F22 also has the crankcase vented to the inlet (to allow the PCV system to pull filtered air into the crankcase). Is your catch can system the only outlet for air from the crankcase?
                      Last edited by Fleetw00d; 09-26-2020, 03:21 PM.
                      90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                      07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                      07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                      08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                      LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                      Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                      Comment


                        OK OK, i'm following........

                        Obviously there's oil up there from cam oil paths, etc, but you're saying the pressure is so high it will take any exit. & the catch can is (yes) the only path. Where previously it would drain back into the bottom ....... when pressure equalized / reversed?
                        FYI - only thing NOT build in the engine is the head. Bottom end was built. But I would assume with this much blow by I'd have other symptoms. I'd have oil on my plugs and a mess from pressures reversing. And I get oil in the catch can with out using boost, which I've read on many other forum pages too.

                        OH, stupid Q, how does the oil in the head normally drain back to the block?
                        Can I have bad oil rings but not bad compression rings?



                        Appreciate the feedback!

                        Comment


                          Surprised to see pistons so clean I could see the S/N on them. Except for # 4....

                          Piston 1


                          Piston 2


                          Piston 3


                          Piston 4


                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                            OK OK, i'm following........

                            Obviously there's oil up there from cam oil paths, etc, but you're saying the pressure is so high it will take any exit. & the catch can is (yes) the only path. Where previously it would drain back into the bottom ....... when pressure equalized / reversed?
                            FYI - only thing NOT build in the engine is the head. Bottom end was built. But I would assume with this much blow by I'd have other symptoms. I'd have oil on my plugs and a mess from pressures reversing. And I get oil in the catch can with out using boost, which I've read on many other forum pages too.

                            OH, stupid Q, how does the oil in the head normally drain back to the block?
                            Can I have bad oil rings but not bad compression rings?

                            Appreciate the feedback!
                            Liquid oil will drain back to the crankcase through the large holes in the sides of the head, but with all the thrashing of rotating/reciprocating parts in the engine, there is a fair amount of oil mist throughout the crankcase. If you had a lot of blow by past the piston rings, this air flow has to go up through the holes that drain oil from the head, blowing some of that draining oil back up to the top of the head. If your plug tube seals are in good condition, you wouldn't necessarily get oil on the plugs. I'm just saying that air leakage past the valve seals (plus any past the rings) has to go somewhere - in your case it goes to the catch can, I suspect through larger diameter tubes than the OEM PCV hose. If the air flow is high enough, it will carry the oil mist with it, filling your can. Is that oil all over piston #4?

                            My daughter's Element (K24) had a tremendous oil consumption problem (quart in less than 500 miles) even with high compression numbers (180+). It didn't blow blue smoke, but I think it had a lot of blow-by pushing oil mist from the crankcase into the intake. I pulled the pistons, honed the cylinders, installed new rings, rod bearings, and valve seals (with the block in the car). Now uses less than a quart in 5000 miles.

                            http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...83&postcount=9

                            I suppose the crudest test would be to disconnect the line(s) to the catch can and watch what comes out while running the engine.
                            Last edited by Fleetw00d; 09-26-2020, 07:43 PM.
                            90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                            07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                            07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                            08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                            LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                            Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                            Comment


                              Well who doesn't like a crude experiment..., i think i can do that. & in no way am I debating, more learning.

                              - Yep, oil on #4 piston vs. the others.
                              - We are still looking at ripping this motor apart not matter the issue I think


                              " I pulled the pistons, honed the cylinders, installed new rings, rod bearings, and valve seals"


                              While I want to do this work myself, I am no where close to the experience level and don't have the tools. I'm assuming you have all the tools etc? or take it to a machine shop for full rebuild / assembly?


                              I'm already thinking ahead (haha... oh silly pun) and parts. I DO NOT know what the best head setup / parts would be. Think i copied this from someone else...

                              - Supertech machine hardened valve locks
                              - - Supertech titanium spring retainers
                              - - Supertech 79lb valve springs
                              - - Supertech valve seals
                              - - Supertech valve guides (Manganese Bronze intake, copper alloy exhaust)
                              - - Supertech black nitrided dish valves
                              - - New OEM valve spring seats
                              - - Skunk2 Pro 2 cams
                              - - Skunk2 Pro Black Series cam gears

                              Comment


                                Looks like my setup! Although my machinist ended up swapping out my Supertech guides for GSC Power-Divisions because the Supertechs weren't allowing the seals to seat properly. You could pull them back off by hand very easily, which would of course cause a few problems. He says he's contacted Supertech about it in the past, but I dont know if they've addressed the issue since I bought my guides a few years back.

                                Comment

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